sabbath

[lightbearer]

The verse you referenced has more than one possibility.

I can think of at least two:

1. It is talking about the Jews, who have not yet entered into their spiritual rest in Christ, of which the day was a type.
2. It is talking about the Church, who have not yet entered into salvation in terms of glorification.

Neither which applies to the ceasing from work as God did. God did not enter into the Spiritual rest which is in Christ Jesus. Nor did God enter into Salvation in terms of glorification.

God ceased from the work of creation on the Seventh Day.


There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God. For he that is entered (past tense) into his rest (the Gospel), he also (besides entering in his rest, the Gospel) he also hath ceased from his own works, AS God did from his.

AS God did from His is a direct comparrison. Meaning just like God did. God worked the first six days of the week, then rested the Seventh. So we are to work the first six days and rest the Seventh. (Heb 4:9-10)

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter (the rest in which is the Gospel) therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
(Heb 4:4-6 KJV)

 

[lightbearer]

So how is working at the 10 commandments ceasing from works as God did from His?

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.


Rest is given as a gift from God. Not something that you can work at and give yourself.

It is God that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Christ in us the Hope of Glory.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
For God has said, "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". (Gal 2:20; Rom 10:6-8; Heb 8:10)

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Neither which applies to the ceasing from work as God did. God did not enter into the Spiritual rest which is in Christ Jesus. Nor did God enter into Salvation in terms of glorification.

God ceased from the work of creation on the Seventh Day.


There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God. For he that is entered (past tense) into his rest (the Gospel), he also (besides entering in his rest, the Gospel) he also hath ceased from his own works, AS God did from his.

AS God did from His is a direct comparrison. Meaning just like God did. God worked the first six days of the week, then rested the Seventh. So we are to work the first six days and rest the Seventh. (Heb 4:9-10)

For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again (HE SPEAKS), IF they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter (the rest in which is the Gospel) therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
(Heb 4:4-6 KJV)

So, before we discuss this passage:

1) What Sabbathkeeping group do you belong to?
2) Does this group affirm the Triune nature of God?
3) Does this group believe Jesus is truly God and truly glorified man?
4) Does this group acknowledge that the 66 books of Scripture are the only source of authoritative divine revelation?
5) Does this group deny the inspired nature of Paul's writings?
6) Do they claim Sabbath-breaking or Sunday observance is, or will be, the Mark of the Beast?
7) Do they believe Sabbath-keeping is the mark of a true believer?
8) Do they view Protestants as being followers of the Roman Catholic church, with Sunday observance as a sign that they are part
of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17?

Like I have said, there's only a few Sabbathkeeper groups I consider to be legit, sound Christian groups, such as Jews for Jesu and Seventh Day Baptists. Most of the others hold cultic doctrines. All of these things are typical Sabbathkeeper claims.

 

[Hevosmies]

So, before we discuss this passage:

1) What Sabbathkeeping group do you belong to?
2) Does this group affirm the Triune nature of God?
3) Does this group believe Jesus is truly God and truly glorified man?
4) Does this group acknowledge that the 66 books of Scripture are the only source of authoritative divine revelation?
5) Does this group deny the inspired nature of Paul's writings?
6) Do they claim Sabbath-breaking or Sunday observance is, or will be, the Mark of the Beast?
7) Do they believe Sabbath-keeping is the mark of a true believer?
8) Do they view Protestants as being followers of the Roman Catholic church, with Sunday observance as a sign that they are part
of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17?

Like I have said, there's only a few Sabbathkeeper groups I consider to be legit, sound Christian groups, such as Jews for Jesu and Seventh Day Baptists. Most of the others hold cultic doctrines. All of these things are typical Sabbathkeeper claims.

Its one of my pet peeves the sabbatarians really. I hate the fact that they act all nice and friendly to your face and say "Ooh yeah lets discuss this in Christian love I just wanna keep the sabbath thats all " and to that I say praise God, I got no type of beef with nobody who wants to keep the sabbath. INFACT: I rest on sunday AND saturday so im DOUBLING DOWN.

The problem only arises when these groups claim ridicilous stuff like sunday worship is the mark of the beast and other garbage like that, and they are friendly toward you while doing it, its crazy. You basically just told me I will take the mark of the beast in the future and im double-cursed unsaved yet you told that to me in Christian love LOL.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Its one of my pet peeves the sabbatarians really. I hate the fact that they act all nice and friendly to your face and say "Ooh yeah lets discuss this in Christian love I just wanna keep the sabbath thats all " and to that I say praise God, I got no type of beef with nobody who wants to keep the sabbath. INFACT: I rest on sunday AND saturday so im DOUBLING DOWN.

The problem only arises when these groups claim ridicilous stuff like sunday worship is the mark of the beast and other garbage like that, and they are friendly toward you while doing it, its crazy. You basically just told me I will take the mark of the beast in the future and im double-cursed unsaved yet you told that to me in Christian love LOL.

Well, I was a little worse than that as a Sabbathkeeper..I wouldn't have even addressed you because I considered you an ignorant, blinded, Sunday-observing heathen

I didn't realize that I didn't even understand salvation basics.

 

[Hevosmies]

Well, I was a little worse than that as a Sabbathkeeper..I wouldn't have even addressed you because I considered you an ignorant, blinded, Sunday-observing heathen

I didn't realize that I didn't even understand salvation basics.

Praise the LORD He saved you from that MESS.

Goes to show you the LORD is always near and always saving His people!

 

[Grandpa]

It is God that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure.
For We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us: and the life which we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved us, and gave himself for us. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Christ in us the Hope of Glory.
So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (word) down from above) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the word) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
For God has said, "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". (Gal 2:20; Rom 10:6-8; Heb 8:10)

Hebrews 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


How can working at the 10 commandments be Rest?

If we have entered into His Rest we have ceased from our own works, as God did from His.

How can that be a description of people working at the 10 commandments in their own understanding and strength?


Just think it through. I think you can get this.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[Wall]

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Seems your telling us the yoke of bondage is the 10 commandments. What do the scriptures say?

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as Grandpa claims or is it simply speaking of circumcision?

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

And again...

GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:

 

[Wall]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Scripture below says Jesus will give you rest

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Without a doubt, Ill bet they said we are to observe Gods sabbath day.

 

[Wall]

If we have entered into His Rest we have ceased from our own works, as God did from His.

Hebrews 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


How can working at the 10 commandments be Rest?

If we have entered into His Rest we have ceased from our own works, as God did from His.

If we have entered into His Rest we have ceased from our own works, as God did from His.

Yup. I agree

HEBREWS 4 [9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Well...Ya see what it says. Now lets see how God rested from His work

HEBREWS 4 [4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works

Yup. God rested the 7th day. The sabbath.

 

[Wall]

Like I have said, there's only a few Sabbathkeeper groups I consider to be legit, sound Christian groups, such as Jews for Jesu and Seventh Day Baptists. Most of the others hold cultic doctrines. All of these things are typical Sabbathkeeper claims.

Are you one of Gods Saints?

REVELATION 19 [7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. [8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of SAINTS.

Marriage of the Lamb to the Saints

1 CORINTHIANS 14 [32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS.

1 CORINTHIANS 1 [2] Unto the CHURCH OF GOD WHICH IS AT CORINTH, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

ROMANS 1 [7] To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

EPHESIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

COLOSSIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [2] TO THE SAINTS AND FAITHFUL BRETHREN IN CHRIST WHICH ARE AT COLOSSE: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

DANIEL 7 [27] And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of THE KINGDOM UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

EPHESIANS 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

EPHESIANS 2 [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

REVELATION 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Go read the 4th commandment

 

[Blik]

Your posts sound like the thrashings of a Judaizer insisting that Sabbath, festivals, and dietary laws must be kept, and those that don't keep them are, in effect, Roman Catholics or their followers.

Seems your telling us the yoke of bondage is the 10 commandments. What do the scriptures say?

GALATIANS 4 [21] Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? [22] For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. [23] But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. [24] Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM THE MOUNT SINAI, WHICH GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, WHICH IS AGAR. [25] For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26] But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.......... [30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Is the above scripture speaking of the 10 commandments as Grandpa claims or is it simply speaking of circumcision?

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

ACTS 7 [8] And he gave him the COVENANT OF CIRCUMCISION: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.

BOTH the 10 commandments and circumcision were givin as “covenants”

EXODUS 24 [12] And the Lord said unto Moses, COME UP TO ME INTO THE MOUNT, and be there: and I WILL GIVE THEE tables of stone, AND A LAW, AND COMMANDMENTS which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

LEVITICUS 7 [37] THIS IS THE LAW OF THE BURNT OFFERING, of the meat offering, and of the sin offering, and of the trespass offering, and of the consecrations, and of the sacrifice of the peace offerings; [38] WHICH THE LORD COMMANDED MOSES IN MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the Lord, in the wilderness of Sinai.

Both covenants, the 10 commandments and the law of Moses were given at Mt Sinai.

JOHN 7 [21] Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.[22] MOSES THEREFORE GAVE UNTO YOU CIRCUMCISION; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.[23] If a man on the sabbath day RECEIVE CIRCUMCISION, THAT THE LAW OF MOSES SHOULD NOT BE BROKEN; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Circumcision is of the law of Moses and given at Sinai. So which of these, the 10 commandments or circumcision do the scriptures say bring us into “bondage” {Gal.4:24}?

And the winner is....

GALATIANS 5 [1] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE. [2] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that IF YE BE CIRCUMCISED, CHRIST SHALL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

And again...

GALATIANS 2 [3] But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was COMPELLED TO BE CIRCUMCISED: [4]And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might BRING US INTO BONDAGE:

It amazes me that so many people who feels they are led by the Holy Spirit do not even listen to what scripture tells them, to say nothing of the Holy Spirit. When scripture tells us that to love the Lord is to obey Him they go on and on and on about how they aren't going to listen to any law the Lord gives them spouting this "not under law".

The Lord tells us that we cannot be Gods, we are not perfect and God demands perfectness when He accepts us in heaven. We would have to be perfect if we were under law for perfection. But the Lord takes care of that. Christ was perfect and offers to pay for our sins. When we accept Christ, and not law for this perfection it is accepted as if we were perfect according to law. We aren't under law for that.

But!! We are under law when we follow Christ. We listen to the Lord and the Lord gives us law to live by. To follow Christ, to accept His work for our salvation, we follow Christ. To follow Christ is to be led by the law. It is not bondage, it is freedom. To follow telling lies, to follow hate, to follow taking dope is to be bound.

All you guys screaming about that the Lord blessed a certain day and rebelling against the "law" saying how teerrrribble it is are way, way, way off base.

 

[tourist]

Christians are NOT obligated to keep the Law of Moses. Period end of story. Just read Hebrews. Without your goggles on.

I use Google all of the time.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

It amazes me that so many people who feels they are led by the Holy Spirit do not even listen to what scripture tells them, to say nothing of the Holy Spirit. When scripture tells us that to love the Lord is to obey Him they go on and on and on about how they aren't going to listen to any law the Lord gives them spouting this "not under law".

The Lord tells us that we cannot be Gods, we are not perfect and God demands perfectness when He accepts us in heaven. We would have to be perfect if we were under law for perfection. But the Lord takes care of that. Christ was perfect and offers to pay for our sins. When we accept Christ, and not law for this perfection it is accepted as if we were perfect according to law. We aren't under law for that.

But!! We are under law when we follow Christ. We listen to the Lord and the Lord gives us law to live by. To follow Christ, to accept His work for our salvation, we follow Christ. To follow Christ is to be led by the law. It is not bondage, it is freedom. To follow telling lies, to follow hate, to follow taking dope is to be bound.

All you guys screaming about that the Lord blessed a certain day and rebelling against the "law" saying how teerrrribble it is are way, way, way off base.

Firstly, obedience is not the issue..the question is, obedience to what?

Answer: obedience to everything Christ taught.

Secondly, I have no more sensitivity to observing the Sabbath than I do being physically circumcised. I don't believe there are two separate laws; the Ten Commandments versus the "Book of the Covenant". I believe there is one law; the entirety of the Mosaic Covenant.

And, there is no way that you can observe it, because the Temple and the Levitical Priesthood no longer exist. Therefore, you cannot complete it, even if you you could be obedient to it through your human efforts.

Thirdly, you have no clue what you are saying. There were tons of Gentile slaves who could not be Sabbathkeepers. They had no ability to keep the Sabbath and festivals and live the requirements of the Torah. They had no control over their diet. Do you think that these requirements were in place, yet Paul never provided instructions on how to deal with their Gentile masters requiring conflicts regarding them? I am not naive enough to believe that.

Fourthly, what sect do you belong to? Hebrew Roots? Seventh Day Adventists? Messianic Jews? Do you believe in the Trinity doctrine? Do you believe Jesus is fully God? Do you believe that the 66 books of the OT and NT are the sole inspired word of God?

Like I already mentioned, when you dig into the doctrine of Sabbathkeepers, except for a few groups such as Seventh Day Baptists and Jews for Jesus, you find a bunch of loons who believe crazy stuff.

I wouldn't fellowship with those types..no way, no how.

I was one of them, by the way, before I realized their nuttiness. I would highly discourage anyone from associating with them. There are very few Sabbathkeeping groups I consider to be credible.

By the way, I have a brother who believes the rhetoric of Sabbathkeepers, because we were brought up by a Sabbathkeeping parent. He's a drunk and a fornicator (living with a woman in the past), yet he lectures me on the Sabbath. I bring this up solely to display to others the hypocrisy of some Sabbathkeepers. While criticizing others for meeting on Sunday (the Lord's Day) many of them are involved in blatant immorality. For instance, the SDA organization itself has health care facilities that perform elective abortions on non-Adventist women, and perform abortions on Adventist women who are alleged victims of rape and incest, as well as the child who might have Down's syndrome. Some Adventists won't even witness to Roman Catholics because of their church's abhorrent abortionist practices.

And, I personally meet with my congregation on Sunday now because it is a commemoration of the resurrection. Jesus was risen on the eighth day (Sunday), and believers have entered into the new creation, in a sense, through being joined with him. I don't suppose your theology includes an understanding of union with Christ, so perhaps you can't understand this reasoning, though. I know as a Sabbathkeeper I was extremely ignorant of core salvation concepts.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Are you one of Gods Saints?

REVELATION 19 [7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. [8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of SAINTS.

Marriage of the Lamb to the Saints

1 CORINTHIANS 14 [32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS.

1 CORINTHIANS 1 [2] Unto the CHURCH OF GOD WHICH IS AT CORINTH, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

ROMANS 1 [7] To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

EPHESIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, TO THE SAINTS WHICH ARE AT EPHESUS, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

COLOSSIANS 1 [1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, [2] TO THE SAINTS AND FAITHFUL BRETHREN IN CHRIST WHICH ARE AT COLOSSE: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

DANIEL 7 [27] And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of THE KINGDOM UNDER THE WHOLE HEAVEN, SHALL BE GIVEN TO THE PEOPLE OF THE SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

EPHESIANS 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

EPHESIANS 2 [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

REVELATION 14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Go read the 4th commandment

Notice that you are claiming commandments = ten commandments.

True saints understand the commandments to indicate all of the commandments of Jesus.

He didn't tell me to observe the Sabbath. He told ancient Israel to observe the Sabbath.

Show me one single command to Gentiles to observe the Sabbath.

You can't do it.

By the way, you can't do it. The Mosaic Law is no longer in effect.

Notice that days and diet are the fixations of Judaizers. Some include mutilation of the male sex organ. But, the majority of their teaching fixates around days and diet. They are really only capable of focusing upon fleshly regulations.

And..if the person is a Seventh Day Adventist..they won't tell you that their "health gospel" teaches them they shouldn't eat certain spices, including those in ketchup, hot cereal, or meat because it may cause masturbation and nymphomania.

That is the original source of Ellen G. White's concern with spices, hot cereal and meat. She believed that certain things excite the sexual passions of individuals, and that eating animals causes their passions to be transferred to the human.

Modern day Adventists might not be aware of this, but it is the truth in regards to the origin. Apparently spices and the warmth of hot cereals such as oatmeal excited them sexually too. That is why Kellogg, an Adventist, invented cold cereal.

Could it be that the real reason is that they have sinful desires, and that's what causes sexually immoral thoughts? No, let's blame it on some substance like spices, hot cereal or meat

As I have mentioned, I came from a Sabbathkeeper background so I am familiar with their inconsistencies. I will mention again the abortions committed by Adventist health care facilities as another inconsistency. While the Sabbath (the fourth commandment) is proclaimed, I guess abortion, which is murder and a violation of the fifth commandment, is ignored. How sane is that?

Some Sabbathkeepers don't even understand core salvation concepts, so it is very hard to reason with them. They are all about days and diet.

By the way, I'm not claiming all SDAs are equally ignorant..some are almost evangelical. However, there is a huge number of Adventists, especially in Africa, which hold to primitive Adventism.

 

[Elihoenai]

James 2:8-11 King James Version (KJV)

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Are any persons labeled Jews or Christians keeping the Sabbath Day exactly as Elohim/God instructs and requires? Failing to keep the Sabbath means that you have violated all the Laws, because, under the Royal Law, if you offend against one, you offend against all.



Sabbath in seventh-day churches

The seventh-day Sabbath, observed from Friday evening to Saturday evening, is an important part of the beliefs and practices of seventh-day churches.

These churches emphasize biblical references such as the ancient Hebrew practice of beginning a day at sundown, and the Genesis creation narrative wherein an "evening and morning" established a day, predating the giving of the Ten Commandments (thus the command to "remember" the sabbath). They hold that the Old and New Testament show no variation in the doctrine of the Sabbath on the seventh day. Saturday, or the seventh day in the weekly cycle, is the only day in all of scripture designated using the term Sabbath. The seventh day of the week is recognized as Sabbath in many languages, calendars, and doctrines, including those of Catholic,[1] Lutheran,[2] and Orthodox churches.[3] It is still observed in modern Judaism in relation to Mosaic Law. In addition, the Orthodox Tewahedo Churches uphold Sabbatarianism, observing the Sabbath on Saturday, in addition to the Lord's Day on Sunday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_seventh-day_churches

 

[cv5]

Firstly, obedience is not the issue..the question is, obedience to what?

Answer: obedience to everything Christ taught.

Secondly, I have no more sensitivity to observing the Sabbath than I do being physically circumcised. I don't believe there are two separate laws; the Ten Commandments versus the "Book of the Covenant". I believe there is one law; the entirety of the Mosaic Covenant.

And, there is no way that you can observe it, because the Temple and the Levitical Priesthood no longer exist. Therefore, you cannot complete it, even if you you could be obedient to it through your human efforts.

Thirdly, you have no clue what you are saying. There were tons of Gentile slaves who could not be Sabbathkeepers. They had no ability to keep the Sabbath and festivals and live the requirements of the Torah. They had no control over their diet. Do you think that these requirements were in place, yet Paul never provided instructions on how to deal with their Gentile masters requiring conflicts regarding them? I am not naive enough to believe that.

Fourthly, what sect do you belong to? Hebrew Roots? Seventh Day Adventists? Messianic Jews? Do you believe in the Trinity doctrine? Do you believe Jesus is fully God? Do you believe that the 66 books of the OT and NT are the sole inspired word of God?

Like I already mentioned, when you dig into the doctrine of Sabbathkeepers, except for a few groups such as Seventh Day Baptists and Jews for Jesus, you find a bunch of loons who believe crazy stuff.

I wouldn't fellowship with those types..no way, no how.

I was one of them, by the way, before I realized their nuttiness. I would highly discourage anyone from associating with them. There are very few Sabbathkeeping groups I consider to be credible.

By the way, I have a brother who believes the rhetoric of Sabbathkeepers, because we were brought up by a Sabbathkeeping parent. He's a drunk and a fornicator (living with a woman in the past), yet he lectures me on the Sabbath. I bring this up solely to display to others the hypocrisy of some Sabbathkeepers. While criticizing others for meeting on Sunday (the Lord's Day) many of them are involved in blatant immorality. For instance, the SDA organization itself has health care facilities that perform elective abortions on non-Adventist women, and perform abortions on Adventist women who are alleged victims of rape and incest, as well as the child who might have Down's syndrome. Some Adventists won't even witness to Roman Catholics because of their church's abhorrent abortionist practices.

And, I personally meet with my congregation on Sunday now because it is a commemoration of the resurrection. Jesus was risen on the eighth day (Sunday), and believers have entered into the new creation, in a sense, through being joined with him. I don't suppose your theology includes an understanding of union with Christ, so perhaps you can't understand this reasoning, though. I know as a Sabbathkeeper I was extremely ignorant of core salvation concepts.

"There are very few Sabbathkeeping groups I consider to be credible."

That has been my experience. And a lot of nuttery for the most part.

 

[Blik]

Firstly, obedience is not the issue..the question is, obedience to what?

Answer: obedience to everything Christ taught.

Secondly, I have no more sensitivity to observing the Sabbath than I do being physically circumcised. I don't believe there are two separate laws; the Ten Commandments versus the "Book of the Covenant". I believe there is one law; the entirety of the Mosaic Covenant.

And, there is no way that you can observe it, because the Temple and the Levitical Priesthood no longer exist. Therefore, you cannot complete it, even if you you could be obedient to it through your human efforts.

Thirdly, you have no clue what you are saying. There were tons of Gentile slaves who could not be Sabbathkeepers. They had no ability to keep the Sabbath and festivals and live the requirements of the Torah. They had no control over their diet. Do you think that these requirements were in place, yet Paul never provided instructions on how to deal with their Gentile masters requiring conflicts regarding them? I am not naive enough to believe that.

Fourthly, what sect do you belong to? Hebrew Roots? Seventh Day Adventists? Messianic Jews? Do you believe in the Trinity doctrine? Do you believe Jesus is fully God? Do you believe that the 66 books of the OT and NT are the sole inspired word of God?

Like I already mentioned, when you dig into the doctrine of Sabbathkeepers, except for a few groups such as Seventh Day Baptists and Jews for Jesus, you find a bunch of loons who believe crazy stuff.

I wouldn't fellowship with those types..no way, no how.

I was one of them, by the way, before I realized their nuttiness. I would highly discourage anyone from associating with them. There are very few Sabbathkeeping groups I consider to be credible.

By the way, I have a brother who believes the rhetoric of Sabbathkeepers, because we were brought up by a Sabbathkeeping parent. He's a drunk and a fornicator (living with a woman in the past), yet he lectures me on the Sabbath. I bring this up solely to display to others the hypocrisy of some Sabbathkeepers. While criticizing others for meeting on Sunday (the Lord's Day) many of them are involved in blatant immorality. For instance, the SDA organization itself has health care facilities that perform elective abortions on non-Adventist women, and perform abortions on Adventist women who are alleged victims of rape and incest, as well as the child who might have Down's syndrome. Some Adventists won't even witness to Roman Catholics because of their church's abhorrent abortionist practices.

And, I personally meet with my congregation on Sunday now because it is a commemoration of the resurrection. Jesus was risen on the eighth day (Sunday), and believers have entered into the new creation, in a sense, through being joined with him. I don't suppose your theology includes an understanding of union with Christ, so perhaps you can't understand this reasoning, though. I know as a Sabbathkeeper I was extremely ignorant of core salvation concepts.

I don't think you are hearing the word of the Lord.

You speak of following Christ as separate from following God. Christ is God, Christ cannot be separated out as a separate God, they are one. Please read scripture, all of it.

The fact that God blessed the Sabbath has nothing at all to do with the circumcision that God gave us. God gave fleshly circumcision to help man and God then gave the improved covenant that gives that spirit of circumcision as better than the fleshly one. God made the Sabbath part of the ten commandments, God blessed that day for us. It is completely different from a fleshly operation to remind us we belong to God, we belong to God in spirit and truth.

God did not cancel anything, God is eternal. You would have to ignore the new testament also if you ignore God as God speaks in the old testament as the new testament tells us. 2 Tim. 3: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, The new testament does not cancel God's word, it fulfills it. The Levitical priesthood is fulfilled in Christ, not cancelled. We are to study the temples and the priesthood to fully understand the temple and priesthood that is fulfilled in Christ, not toss out God's word.

All your stuff and junk about different sects is hogwash, actually. We are not to make sects our God and religion, we are to follow scripture.

 

[Dino246]

God did not cancel anything, God is eternal.

Actually, God did cancel something...

Colossians 2:13b-14 He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I don't think you are hearing the word of the Lord.

You speak of following Christ as separate from following God. Christ is God, Christ cannot be separated out as a separate God, they are one. Please read scripture, all of it.

I don't claim that. There is one Being, God, yet three distinct Persons. This is the Trinity doctrine. I am a Trinitarian, since being a cultic Sabbathkeeper who denied the Trinity.

The fact that God blessed the Sabbath has nothing at all to do with the circumcision that God gave us. God gave fleshly circumcision to help man and God then gave the improved covenant that gives that spirit of circumcision as better than the fleshly one. God made the Sabbath part of the ten commandments, God blessed that day for us. It is completely different from a fleshly operation to remind us we belong to God, we belong to God in spirit and truth.

Can you separate applicable commandments by Ten Commandments vs. other commandments? If so, then do you claim that unclean meat laws are still applicable, or festivals? If so, then why? If only the Ten Commandments are applicable, then why would you claim that clean meat laws are still applicable? See the dilemma of your situation? You simply pick and choose what you want.

God did not cancel anything, God is eternal. You would have to ignore the new testament also if you ignore God as God speaks in the old testament as the new testament tells us. 2 Tim. 3: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, The new testament does not cancel God's word, it fulfills it. The Levitical priesthood is fulfilled in Christ, not cancelled. We are to study the temples and the priesthood to fully understand the temple and priesthood that is fulfilled in Christ, not toss out God's word.

My assertion is this: days and meats are not applicable. Of course, I believe Jesus and his mission are the fulfillment of the Mosaic Laws. Some are still moral commandments, and reflect the image of God as expressed in mankind. For instance, nine of the ten commandments do.

Additionally, Judaizing is a heresy. That is why Galatians was written. Some were claiming Gentiles needed to observe the Mosaic Laws. Physical circumcision was the beginning of this claim.

All your stuff and junk about different sects is hogwash, actually. We are not to make sects our God and religion, we are to follow scripture.

Sects are a relevant topic when discussing heresies. Identifying what sect a person belongs to is helpful in understanding their weaknesses in doctrine. For instance, as I mentioned, if someone is a Seventh Day Adventist, they have to answer for their organization's promotion of abortion, and other aspects of their teaching including their denial of the biblical Trinity (while claiming to be Trinitarians, they are in reality tri-theists). Therefore, it is a relevant topic of discussion.

In fact, if someone is NOT part of a group of some sort, I would wonder why, since Scripture teaches that believers are to be accountable to elders for accountability. They could be some kind of "lone ranger" Sabbathkeeping rebel who is dwelling in paranoid seclusion, but my guess is most of them are part of groups with aberrant theology.

See comments above.

Firstly, I totally agree with studying the shadows and types of the Mosaic Law. I have spent many hours reading about this typology, and I would recommend the Youtube channel theBibleProject for some insight in this regard, as well as the book God Dwells Among Us by GK Beale, and Temple and Tabernacle by J. Daniel Hays.

The Temple and Tabernacle pointed to God's presence, in the Garden of Eden, the camp of Israel, the city of Jerusalem, Jesus, the Church, and the New Heavens/New Earth. There is deep meaning in studying this topic.

However, I highly suggest not getting involved with Sabbathkeeping, Hebrew Roots types in studying these topics.

Christ is of the Melchizedek priesthood, not the Levitical priesthood. It is true that he was typified by the high priest, as well as the Levitical priests, and that the Temple and tabernacle pointed to him and his work, as well as a restoration of Eden.

Again, I do not support the separation of the Ten Commandments from the rest of the Mosaic Law. Sabbaths, festivals, and New Moons are no longer applicable. If you use Colossians 2:16-17 to support one or two of these three elements, yet deny the continuing applicability of the third, you are being inconsistent in your assertions.

I suggest that all compare Hebrews 10:1-4, 9:9-11, and Colossians 2:16-17, comparing the language, to see that the observances of days pointed toward a substance, who is Christ.

And, I suggest paying careful attention to what Scripture says about days and diet. These are the main focus of Judaizers. They believe that days and diet are the measure of a true believer.

Additionally, I ask again..what group do you belong to?

If you won't answer that, what is your position on the Trinity? Is it a biblical doctrine?

What is your position on Paul's writings? Are they inspired?

What is your position on extra-biblical writings? Are they inspired?

No one should claim I don't believe that Christians should follow the commandments of Jesus. Obviously this doesn't mean that the commandments of the Mosaic Law should be followed as a whole. There is no Temple and no Levitical priesthood, so this cannot be done. Anyone who claims the Mosaic Law is in effect is condemning themselves because it can't be followed.

However, believers are being transformed into the image of Christ, therefore they will not want to transgress laws that correspond to the image of Christ.

Meeting on a certain day or avoiding certain foods is not moral in nature. This is the claim of Judaizers. They major in such observances, and then claim that others are unbelievers or ignorant.

I have noted examples of their hypocrisy in this regard.