Not By Works

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Whispered said:
Brief Summary: The Book of Hebrews addresses three separate groups: believers in Christ, unbelievers who had knowledge of and an intellectual acceptance of the facts of Christ, and unbelievers who were attracted to Christ, but who rejected Him ultimately. It’s important to understand which group is being addressed in which passage. To fail to do so can cause us to draw conclusions inconsistent with the rest of Scripture.
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Good thing I stay away form those commentators.

"attracted to Christ" ... LOL ......talk about reading it through the North American mindset.

The author is addressing one group..... and it all works beautifully when correctly understood.

I refer you to this most excellent post by @dcontroversal

...#114630
 
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Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If anyone adds or takes away clearly what God has spoken , they are in grave danger...

We who believe we cannot lose our Salvation is because we believe in the word of God to be true...
We do not believe that works do not follow , but believe in the works that God has set before us to do , and so we do them ...

Romans 15:5
Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, ...

Even our perseverance to walk on comes from Him , how blessed we are :)
...xox...
 
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EleventhHour said:
Interesting, so they equate faith with certain works?
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Yes. I once quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 to a Roman Catholic and clarified that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." That same Roman Catholic also denied that Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by works. Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic contradicted himself and misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such:

Saved by grace through faith "infused" with good works, just not by works of the law.

As you can also see, that Roman Catholic teaches saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law). The problem with that logic is you cannot dissect good works from the law. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37-40) That same Roman Catholic also made this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being defined as and INCLUDES these works above (yet at the same time denying that Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by works) is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
 
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Melach said:
well the bible does say all good gifts from above come from the Father. so whatever good gift it is, it comes from the Father.
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That’s exactly my point, brother. Worker bees are self righteous about their works, but when it’s pointed out that the works come from God, the worker bees remain pridefully silent rather than giving God the glory.
 
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Lightskin said:
That’s exactly my point, brother. Worker bees are self righteous about their works, but when it’s pointed out that the works come from God, the worker bees remain pridefully silent rather than giving God the glory.
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That is a cute dog Lightskin.
 
I am thankful I do not look at my works or my perseverance for proof of my salvation....for that is a focus on myself and not Christ.

Grace while undeserved is free..no strings attached, promise of works not required... and this is what magnifies God who gives freely and only from that understanding of His Grace towards us will the good works flow.
 
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mailmandan said:
Yes. I once quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 to a Roman Catholic and clarified that we are saved by grace through faith, not works and the Roman Catholic responded by saying, "I know that." That same Roman Catholic also denied that Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by works. Then after we discussed it a little deeper, it turns out the Roman Catholic contradicted himself and misinterpreted Ephesians 2:8,9 as such:

Saved by grace through faith "infused" with good works, just not by works of the law.

As you can also see, that Roman Catholic teaches saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law). The problem with that logic is you cannot dissect good works from the law. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:37-40) That same Roman Catholic also made this statement below:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

His argument about faith being defined as and INCLUDES these works above (yet at the same time denying that Roman Catholicism teaches salvation by works) is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) + works.
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Yes indeed very familiar ;)

Exactly so important to properly define faith... agree.

Faith in Catholicism is also believing really hard moment by moment. ..... sigh!
 
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mailmandan said:
Saved by grace through faith "infused" with good works, just not by works of the law.
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I was also once in a discussion with someone who attends the church of Christ and he provided another example below of someone who teaches that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit." o_O
 
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mailmandan said:
I was also once in a discussion with someone who attends the church of Christ and he provided another example below of someone who teaches that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works:

"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."
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From what I have seen ...it is rampant.
Sad and somewhat delusional ( ;) catch that reference) to think they can add to the cross.

In essence they nullify the work of the cross.:(
 
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Lightskin said:
That’s exactly my point, brother. Worker bees are self righteous about their works, but when it’s pointed out that the works come from God, the worker bees remain pridefully silent rather than giving God the glory.
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I would say it is not that our works come from God as though we have no choice in the matter, sometimes we definitely feel His prompting, but also we must make a choice to act and yield. (see James).

As well, it is within our saved status that works legitimize/justify who were are before men and secondly please God because of who we are in Christ.
 
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The relationship between works and the born again believer is extremely complex and you need to be a highly trained theological mastermind scholar with a humble heart like myself to figure it out.

Heres the deal:

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God is working in us both to will and work for his good pleasure, which is causing in us the desire to obey Him, this is done by the Holy Spirit who is given to us. An example of this is you got a brother or sister in trouble and you just feel COMPELLED to do something about it, and you DO, thats GOD in you doing that, and now that work that you did is actually a REWARD you will reap later on in the judgment seat of Christ. Why? Because of RIGHT MOTIVE and GOD was behind it. Had you went ahead as an unsaved man it would be nothing but FILTHY RAGS, God is not impressed. NO REWARDS. But done by a believer (Eph 2:10) its REWARD time.


This is the definition of the word "works" in Philippians 2:13: 1754 energéō (from 1722 /en, "engaged in," which intensifies 2041 /érgon, "work") – properly, energize, working in a situation which brings it from one stage (point) to the next, like an electrical current energizing a wire, bringing it to a shining light bulb.

Notice: electrical current energizing a wire. Thats how I look at it, WITHOUT GOD WORKING IN YOU, its just a LIGHT BULB that got nothing going thru it! God working in you its SHINING BRIGHT. Let your light shine before men.

I dont care what anyone says, thats the truth whole truth and nothing but the truth and anyone who disagrees with me is just wrong. TOO BAD. They didnt make me the protestant pope(yet) but I hope everyone agrees with what I said. ALL GOD'S PEOPLE SAID??? AMEN!!!?
 
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Hear ye, hear ye!!

You must do only 3 things to be saved, and go to heaven!!

1. Drink coffee

2. Eat chocolate

3. Love orange kitties

If you DON'T do these things every day, you are HELL BOUND!! You have been warned.. :sneaky:


Laughing.gif
 
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blue_ladybug said:
Hear ye, hear ye!!

You must do only 3 things to be saved, and go to heaven!!

1. Drink coffee

2. Eat chocolate

3. Love orange kitties

If you DON'T do these things every day, you are HELL BOUND!! You have been warned.. :sneaky:


View attachment 207248
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1. I gave up coffee 10 years ago.

2. I've eaten enough chocolate to cover me for several eternal lives, lol.

3. I like cats, but (don't hate me for this) I'm not crazy about orange tabbies. :oops:

Can I be saved?
 
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