'Grace only' teachers should spare us from the rhetoric.
Don't you know, being faithful to your wife/husband, is indeed keeping the law of Moses?! Why are grace teachers also #1 law keepers?!
against Grace Only preaching
- Thread starter BibleloverBill
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'Grace only' teachers should spare us from the rhetoric.
Don't you know, being faithful to your wife/husband, is indeed keeping the law of Moses?! Why are grace teachers also #1 law keepers?!
don't you know that gentiles never had the Law, never under the Law, and never commanded to keep the Sabbath .
Law and Sabbath keeping have 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I am so mixed up by your response!
It sounds like you are teaching "Calvinism's predestination" here.
In your saying that one hasn't even the "ability" of being able to repent unless God first chooses that particular one to do such a thing. But, even in one's doing "such a thing" as repenting, is not an "act of repentance?"
Here I thought "repenting" meant a "turning away from." Perhaps it is me who has the definition of repenting wrong.
Doesn't turning away require "effort/s?"
Yet, it is your belief, efforts, or acts, are not considered "works?"
So, God's kindness is "grace?" In all the different translations of this verse, I've read? It is rendered "kindness", or "goodness", but not "grace."
Or, is it "grace" that is God's kindness?
From the way your response sounds?
Every individual has no say so, concerning one's obtaining God's free gift of salvation?
"Whosoever believes, shall be saved", doesn't truly mean "whosoever", does it?
Sure sounds like "predestination" to me!
But, I digress!
Today I could hold my breath about 15 seconds. LOL Take a deep breath.
First things first of course. It is a work a work of God turning us who were dead in their trespasses and sin so that after being turned we in turn can repent (comfort our self)..
If there is no work of God turning us supplying information. . . . working in us giving us the information (ears to hear) by which we could then seek him . Then no man can seek to understanding anything about God.
He as our first love must do the first work giving us ears to hear and new born again eyes to see the eternal things of God..
A God of cause and effect. let there be... and salivation was good..
No self creation like the Jews that gloried in the flesh, turning things upside down. As we turned him to hear us.. Taking away the understanding of God.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans3:10 11
Jeremiah 31:17-18 King James Version (KJV) I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
Surely after he did the first work of turning us we are turned, we repented;
having been turned
His part in salvation is to turn us that are accustomed to the yoke of this world .(lust flesh lust of the eyes and false pride of this life).
Our part in salvation as the better things that accompanies salvation according to Hebrew 6 is. He will not forget the good works that he works in us turning of towards Him to both will and do his good pleasure.
Two kinds of yokes one we are born earthly with. . . the other supernatural born from above.
I teach this- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
the Law and the Sabbath is all in a covenant, a covenant made with God and Israel, only and specifically.
I am so mixed up by your response!
It sounds like you are teaching "Calvinism's predestination" here.
In your saying that one hasn't even the "ability" of being able to repent unless God first chooses that particular one to do such a thing. But, even in one's doing "such a thing" as repenting, is not an "act of repentance?"
Here I thought "repenting" meant a "turning away from." Perhaps it is me who has the definition of repenting wrong.
Doesn't turning away require "effort/s?"
Yet, it is your belief, efforts, or acts, are not considered "works?"
So, God's kindness is "grace?" In all the different translations of this verse, I've read? It is rendered "kindness", or "goodness", but not "grace."
Or, is it "grace" that is God's kindness?
From the way your response sounds?
Every individual has no say so, concerning one's obtaining God's free gift of salvation?
"Whosoever believes, shall be saved", doesn't truly mean "whosoever", does it?
Sure sounds like "predestination" to me!
But, I digress!
you are mixed up about a lot of theology , like the Law, who was under it, and the Sabbath , and....
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
'Grace only' teachers should spare us from the rhetoric.
Don't you know, being faithful to your wife/husband, is indeed keeping the law of Moses?! Why are grace teachers also #1 law keepers?!
"Boggles" the mind, it does!
You don't understand, do you? The law was not abolished.
Rom 3:31Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? Absolutely not! Instead, we uphold the Law.
Yes repentance, God turning us is a gracious work of God that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure. Some murmur because they feel they deserve more recognition than others who could of done less work .
Philipians2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
A good example is Mary and Martha a dynamic dual . A picture in a parable of two working together. Showing both kinds of work (that seen and that not seen) is needed. But Mary the seemingly lazy one chose the better .
Only God can see into the heart and perform the work necessary so that we can believe. Do all things without murmurings and disputing's:. .
God is gracious. . . his mercy according to His labor of love that works in us. . . is longsuffering . Long suffer is the first work of love, prepared for the second aspect. God is kind. No grace in long suffering no kindness. It is all one work that does work in us .
Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word. But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me. And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.38-42
i understand perfectly.
the Law, the Sabbath, the dietary laws, the feasts and festivals, etc.. was in a COVENANT.
God made this Covenant with Israel, at Sinai, through Moses.
you guys are really tone deaf to this.
covenants have to be entered to by both parties involved .
and, before you pull out judeaizer lie #8, ( the 10 Commands were put in the Ark), what was the title of the Ark?
the Ark of the Covenant.
what covenant?
see the first few lines of this post.
I see you are so much against the Sabbath and other commands and i want to take this opportunity to perhaps enlighten you about the Sabbath and God's commands.
God's commands (word of God/God) themselves are not wicked but righteous. It is our understanding and what we do with our wrong understanding that is wicked.
The command to keep Sabbath, was never about the day but about the people and God made it clear several times. It is about our love for those who work for us; the maidservant/ the animal (oxen)/ sons and daughters/ the sojourner- it is about according them rest in love; so are the rest of God's commandments, they are all about love for others, that's why it is said, whoever loves has fulfilled the law (all requirements).
For a deeper understanding the Sabbath, please read this:
Isa 58:
1“Cry aloud, do not hold back!
Raise your voice like a ram’s horn.
Declare to My people their transgression
and to the house of Jacob their sins.
2For day after day they seek Me
and delight to know My ways,
like a nation that does what is right
and does not forsake the justice of their God.
They ask Me for righteous judgments;
they delight in the nearness of God.”
3“Why have we fasted, and You have not seen?
Why have we humbled ourselves, and You have not noticed?”
“Behold, on the day of your fast, you do as you please,
and you oppress all your workers.
4You fast with contention and strife
to strike viciously with your fist.
You cannot fast as you do today
and have your voice be heard on high.
5Is this the fast I have chosen,
a day for a man to deny himself,
to bow his head like a reed,
and to spread out sackcloth and ashes?
Will you call this a fast
and a day acceptable to the LORD?
6Isn’t this the fast that I have chosen:
to break the chains of wickedness,
to untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and tear off every yoke?
7Isn’t it to share your bread with the hungry,
to bring the poor and homeless into your home,
to clothe the naked when you see him,
and not to turn away
from your own flesh and blood?
I have nothing against the Sabbath.
if anyone wants to honor the twilight fri.-through twilight sat., then that is fine.
however, it is a choice. it is NOT a command for gentile Christ followers.
Christians keep the Lord's day. ( Jesus did NOT rise on the Sabbath, that is another judeaizer lie),
nine of the 10 commnads were repeated in the N.T., with the exception being Shabbat.
well, if you do not think that the Law was a Covenant, i think i;ll waste no more time , you are so far off base i am not qualified to help you.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Way I see it? They are what is referred to in the bible, as "weaker brothers."
They truly need stronger brethern's help!
They only "keep the law/s" that makes them "appear" righteous, to themselves, and others.
The "rest" of "the law?" Not needed! Nor required!
"Love will cover the MULTITUDE of sins!
That is until they get to "here!":
Isaiah 28
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Until "this" happens:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Because they have said "this":
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Which exposes their "hypocracy." When "this" happens!:
Ezekiel 13
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
I know!
Don't tell me!
"Legalist!"
"Judizer!"
"Hebrew Roots!"
(feel free to stop me where I'm wrong here
)Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
"Scripture twister!"
"Pharasee!"
"Calvinist!"
Two kinds of laws...
The word "faith" I would think should be defined to help in understanding the difference between the unseen "law of faith" and that seen the letter of the law. . as it is written by the finger of God. .
Remember it is because by the new faith by which we can believe in a God not seen.
Its because we are a new creation as sons of God. As a new creation we therefore can offer our obedience towards Christ who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness) . Because that righteousness does not come from us. But does as it is written comes from hearing the word of God. Not of our own selves. Many turn that upside down.
The "law of faith", the unseen eternal. . and the eternal rest (sabbath no time element) that we have. . . From that faith that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure. . . is the work of His salvation. he gives his children the confidence that if he has begun the good work of salvation in us he will finish it till the last day .
The letter of the law, the temporal as death . It will be tossed in the final fiery judgment of God on the last day. . . never to rise and condemn a entire creation. . subjecting it to corruption .
Both the "letter of the law" that which pronounces us guilty and the unseen "law of faith" that declares the new creation clear of all charges (sin) work together to make one perfect or complete law. The satisfied law of God Either part. . . the unseen eternal or that seen the temporal if separated . . . mankind stays dead. No mercy
Note... (bolded ) My added opinion..
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? (the letter) Nay: but by the law of faith.(the unseen)
It appears to be what Psalms 19 what I call the 7 come 11(7-11) is saying so graciously.
Simply ones that were born with no understanding of God from God are given a new quickened soul so that then by grace they could seek after him . A list of things the living abiding words of God can perform in us.
The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. Pasalm 19: 7:11
As in all cases the antichrist as the father of lies tries to separate that which God calls one, or what God calls separate he multiplies. In him there is no truth.
The original counterfeiter .
This I offer that it applies to the perfect law by which we can rest in Christ. Apart the two they produce nothing.
In that way we must be careful in how we hear...following the perfect law .the perfect has come and performed His labor of love or work of faith.
Way I see it? They are what is referred to in the bible, as "weaker brothers."
They truly need stronger brethern's help!
They only "keep the law/s" that makes them "appear" righteous, to themselves, and others.
The "rest" of "the law?" Not needed! Nor required!
"Love will cover the MULTITUDE of sins!
That is until they get to "here!":
Isaiah 28
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
Until "this" happens:
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Because they have said "this":
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Which exposes their "hypocracy." When "this" happens!:
Ezekiel 13
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:
11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it.
12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it?
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it.
14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it;
I know!
Don't tell me!
"Legalist!"
"Judizer!"
"Hebrew Roots!"
(feel free to stop me where I'm wrong here
Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
"Scripture twister!"
"Pharasee!"
"Calvinist!"
LOl
Big difference between a Pharisee and a Calvinist. Same difference between Saul and born again Paul . Law of men and the law of God.
Amen Noose, I love this description of service to our Lord. It is something to shoot for, but I know we will fall short.
Personally, I delight in God's Commandments because they give so much instruction.
I guess I am saying I, occasionally, still need a schoolmaster. We can rest assured, Isaiah 58:1-7 will teach us how to love like God.
