Has an equal opportunity for salvation been given to all people in all time periods?

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Has an equal opportunity for salvation been given to all people in all time periods?

  • Yes, an equal opportunity for salvation has been given to all people in all time periods

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • No, an equal opportunity for salvation has not been given to all people in all time periods

    Votes: 9 56.3%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#61
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.[Hebrews 1]

Noah, Abraham, Enoch, Isaac, Jacob, et al did not have a bible and that is true. But they had God conversing with them. Yes, the bible wasn't written until centuries after they had died. I agree with that, and neither will any Calvinist/Reformed person. However, God does not speak to us that way now, by audible voice. He speaks to us via His word now. What God told them, they told the ppl and they had a audible bible of sorts, if you will. What God told them, they told the ppl. Now we have the full canon of scripture and we don't have God talking to us audibly now, but through His word, the bible.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.[1 Cor. 1:21]

How does God save ppl according to this verse? Through preaching, not through mystical means. God does not speak to us audibly today. I know there are some who claim some sort of apostolic authority and God speaks to them, but I call that utter foolishness. If ppl want God to speak to them, they need to pick their bibles up and read. That is God speaking to us through the pages of scriptures He has given us to learn more of Him.

13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.[Ephesians 1]

Again, another time where the word of God is necessary to bring one to saving faith. There is no other way to come to saving faith than through His word my Friend.

26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”[1 Corinthians]

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.[Romans 8]

5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.[2 Peter 1]

Now, I brought these passages up because they all deal with God calling ppl. How are ppl called? Via the word of the God, the bible. There is no other way that He calls us than via His word. :)
Ah. Cessationism. Not interested. To suggest God used to speak to people but now that we have the Bible He has gone mute is ridicilous. How could anyone know they are called to be a teacher, an evangelist or anything without God telling it to them? The Bible deals with groups, such as Churches in Corinth, it doesn't deal with individual commands from God. The leading of the Spirit.

Example: The Bible will not tell you "Hey, John, go witness to that man" "Hey, John, I have called you to be a missionary in Pago pago".
The Bible tells you the general principle which is: Preach the gospel to every creature, but it does not tell you specifically which country or place God has called you to do it.

This is why leading of the Holy Spirit is important in our daily life. If I wouldn't of listened to the Holy Spirit's leading me I would be dead right now.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
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#62
Ah. Cessationism. Not interested. To suggest God used to speak to people but now that we have the Bible He has gone mute is ridicilous. How could anyone know they are called to be a teacher, an evangelist or anything without God telling it to them? The Bible deals with groups, such as Churches in Corinth, it doesn't deal with individual commands from God. The leading of the Spirit.

Example: The Bible will not tell you "Hey, John, go witness to that man" "Hey, John, I have called you to be a missionary in Pago pago".
The Bible tells you the general principle which is: Preach the gospel to every creature, but it does not tell you specifically which country or place God has called you to do it.

This is why leading of the Holy Spirit is important in our daily life. If I wouldn't of listened to the Holy Spirit's leading me I would be dead right now.
I said He doesn’t speak to us verbally. I may have said audibly earlier, can’t remember which word I use. But He doesn’t speak to us like you would someone in a convo.

Here’s how He speaks to us. The other morning in prayer, as I was praying, a Brother I follow on Twitter, his photo kept coming into my mind. I couldn’t shake it. So I prayed for God to watch over him and his family. I DM’d(they call it DM, where as it’s a PM here) asking if he was okay. He said yes. Later that evening he said there was some trouble at work but everything went fine..paraphrasing that, as I don’t remember the exact words he used.

But I didn’t hear any words when this happened.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#63
I said He doesn’t speak to us verbally. I may have said audibly earlier, can’t remember which word I use. But He doesn’t speak to us like you would someone in a convo.

Here’s how He speaks to us. The other morning in prayer, as I was praying, a Brother I follow on Twitter, his photo kept coming into my mind. I couldn’t shake it. So I prayed for God to watch over him and his family. I DM’d(they call it DM, where as it’s a PM here) asking if he was okay. He said yes. Later that evening he said there was some trouble at work but everything went fine..paraphrasing that, as I don’t remember the exact words he used.

But I didn’t hear any words when this happened.
Job 33:14
For God does speak--now one way, now another-- though no one perceives it.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#65
Yes. In the OT He did speak verbally to ppl. But Hebrews 1 will clear this up for you my friend.
No where does it say God stops speaking in any way to anyone ever. God still spoke to prophets after Jesus' death burial and resurrection. God gave some 'PROPHETS' to the Churches. Among others, and this is written after Jesus had already came.

God still spoke to people after the Bible was completed. Which by the way, is no where said to be the reason why God stops talking, that is just made up theology with no Scripture behind it from cessationists who dont like the fact that Spirit filled Christians can get messages from the living God. I do not know why, but they dont like it and roll their eyes at it, I have seen it many times. Prime example: John MacArthur.

The Bible being completed has nothing to do with God stopping talking, and the Bible being completed did not benefit many people until very recently, because of the lack of availability of the Scriptures and the lack of reading skills. You are arguing on the basis of modern living.
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
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#66
No where does it say God stops speaking in any way to anyone ever. God still spoke to prophets after Jesus' death burial and resurrection. God gave some 'PROPHETS' to the Churches. Among others, and this is written after Jesus had already came.

God still spoke to people after the Bible was completed. Which by the way, is no where said to be the reason why God stops talking, that is just made up theology with no Scripture behind it from cessationists who dont like the fact that Spirit filled Christians can get messages from the living God. I do not know why, but they dont like it and roll their eyes at it, I have seen it many times. Prime example: John MacArthur.

The Bible being completed has nothing to do with God stopping talking, and the Bible being completed did not benefit many people until very recently, because of the lack of availability of the Scriptures and the lack of reading skills. You are arguing on the basis of modern living.
You’re denying the sufficiency of scriptures my friend. :)

Good day.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#67
I would have a hard time believing that all have had an equal opportunity for salvation.

One, I am convicted that election to salvation is taught in Scripture.

Two, I referenced Scriptures saying that God opened up salvation to the Gentiles at the time of Paul.

Three, Ephesians refers to the Gentiles as without hope prior to Christ.

Four, all but eight drown in the Flood so apparently they didn't belong to God. I have indicated in the past that eight is the number of new beginnings, so I don't think the number is incidental.

For instance, Hebrew children were circumcised at eight days old, and Jesus was resurrected on the eighth day as a new creation, as his resurrection body was the firstfruit of a great harvest.
I would agree with you, save for that which was written here:
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The "key" word here, is "provisions." Salvation? May be a bit "strong." But, as one can read, "even the elect", are judged by BOTH books. :unsure:

And, in the following verse?
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Like I said, "salvation" may be a bit "strong."
Provisions?
Who's "loving kindness endures forever?"

Could be another "In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth" "age" episode.
I dunno! I ain't God! Jez an "agent" for God.
Sure glad I ain't too! :)
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#68
I would agree with you, save for that which was written here:
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The "key" word here, is "provisions." Salvation? May be a bit "strong." But, as one can read, "even the elect", are judged by BOTH books. :unsure:

And, in the following verse?
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Like I said, "salvation" may be a bit "strong."
Provisions?
Who's "loving kindness endures forever?"

Could be another "In the beginning God created the Heavens and Earth" "age" episode.
I dunno! I ain't God! Jez an "agent" for God.
Sure glad I ain't too! :)
The elect are not dead, nor will they ever die. Physically, yes, spiritually, no.

They are ruling with Christ in heaven.

And, yes, I am amillennial :)

:)
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#69
Ah. Cessationism. Not interested. To suggest God used to speak to people but now that we have the Bible He has gone mute is ridicilous. How could anyone know they are called to be a teacher, an evangelist or anything without God telling it to them? The Bible deals with groups, such as Churches in Corinth, it doesn't deal with individual commands from God. The leading of the Spirit.

Example: The Bible will not tell you "Hey, John, go witness to that man" "Hey, John, I have called you to be a missionary in Pago pago".
The Bible tells you the general principle which is: Preach the gospel to every creature, but it does not tell you specifically which country or place God has called you to do it.

This is why leading of the Holy Spirit is important in our daily life. If I wouldn't of listened to the Holy Spirit's leading me I would be dead right now.
I don't believe in that "cessation" crap either.

I believe one can "interchange" traditions/precepts of man, with "gaslighting."
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#70
You’re denying the sufficiency of scriptures my friend. :)

Good day.
It is sufficient, but for what? 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us that. I could come back and say you are denying the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit my friend. Scriptures will not help you if you are about to board a ship that will get shipwreck. But the Holy Spirit can tell you "Dont go!". Things like this have happened to many born again Christians.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#71
I don't believe in that "cessation" crap either.

I believe one can "interchange" traditions/precepts of man, with "gaslighting."
I don't think cessationists teach that the Holy Spirit has ceased guiding mankind.

Their basic issue is with tongues, prophesying the future, claiming to be apostles and prophets, and some guy claiming he personally has the gift of healing.

I find it amusing that so many who claim the gift of tongues learn it from someone else. It doesn't just happen spontaneously like the book of Acts.

Therefore, I pretty well know those types are fakes.

Nor do I think that tongues are gibberish. I believe when and if God uses tongues for some purpose, it is related to real languages.

I also don't believe God speaks audibly to particular individuals. It's pretty obvious to me that such individuals are seeking attention from others. I was in a parachurch ministry and the head claimed God spoke to him audibly. My conclusion: 1) attention seeker or 2) mentally disturbed. I hope it was the latter.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#72
The elect are not dead, nor will they ever die. Physically, yes, spiritually, no.

They are ruling with Christ in heaven.

And, yes, I am amillennial :)

:)
As far as "physically" goes? I'd be a little hesitant on saying that, in these last days.

As far as "amillinial" goes?
Don't you be using those $0.50 cent words on me. :)

I use the K.I.S.S. "principle." ;)
 
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,198
113
#73
It is sufficient, but for what? 1 Timothy 3:16 tells us that. I could come back and say you are denying the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit my friend. Scriptures will not help you if you are about to board a ship that will get shipwreck. But the Holy Spirit can tell you "Dont go!". Things like this have happened to many born again Christians.
For what? For this...16 profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. The word of God is all we need as He speaks to us through it. But you’ll disagree, so I digress.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#74
For what? For this...16 profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. The word of God is all we need as He speaks to us through it. But you’ll disagree, so I digress.
I dont disagree with the Scripture. You are simply a cessationist who is not a fan of having a living relationship with God, walking with God. Why does it bother you guys so much that God warns His people and has not gone mute? God leads us by the Spirit and no amount of Bible verses can help you avoid a shipwreck, because the Bible is not written to prevent you from boarding a ship that leads to a wreck. The Bible is written to lead us to Christ

Have you read the letter sent to Timothy? Stir up the gift. Neglect NOT the gift that is IN YOU Timothy. Those are in the Scriptures, and they are for our teaching and correction as well ;) Or do you disagree with that? I guess so since many Scriptures no longer apply because the Bible is completed according to cessationists. No biblical case can be made for it.