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It does sound good, that is why the masses are drawn to it, I agree that no amount of charity well get us into heaven, the issue is not charity but repentance: It gets rid of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and many other verses by either pretending they dont exist or explaining them away by saying they arent applicable to Christians even if they are written to Churches, or they say inherit means some special reward in the kingdom, but you will still make it.
Do a word search for faith alone in the Bible, you will find only one verse:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
There are two ways to look at that, most commonly the faith alone crowd claims to believe James, and say it either means justified in front of man not God, or it means that genuine faith (alone) will then produce works as evidence of real conversion.
Take your pick. I prefer to just believe what the Bible says without all the mental gymnastics to hold on to OSAS despite the Bible saying clearly in the latter days many will depart from the faith.
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Just as it is said by Jesus Christ Himself. "some believe for a while and then" and then what? are once saved always saved because they believed? Nope! It says in time of temptation they fall away. So these werent the gnostics described in the epistle of John who "went out from among us but were not of us" because these people clearly were in the faith, because they left it, many people believe for a while and then fall away, because of one reason or another. That is why we are told continously in the Bible to "hold fast" and be steady, these are not pointless warnings as they would be in the OSAS theology, no need to hold fast you are saved anyway. Might lose a bit of rewards but we know from day to day life that people do not care about that, no one is troubled by that, if people make it to heaven and get to eat their cake here too? They love it, and we see it in the Churches today, in action, the fruit this teaching has produced. "Hyper grace" you could say.
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
I was told by someone in the not by works thread that my conditions for salvation are not biblical, because I commented that we need to continue in the faith stedfast to be saved. They did not respond back to me after I posted a verse that says just that, because its hard to twist this simple verse:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
If I were to quote a verse prior to that, it would seem like its a job done and we're good to go:
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
We are reconciled now, its a done deal, OSAS! But again verse 23, gives the conditions as always. There is always a condition and that condition is almost always said to be REPENTANCE and FAITH. Produce fruit worthy of repentance (for those who argue that repent only means to change ones mind, true and this results in change of action)
I know I will probably just get "disagree" and ridicule for this post as was the case in the Not by works thread, but that is already speaking volumes in itself.
Do a word search for faith alone in the Bible, you will find only one verse:
James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
There are two ways to look at that, most commonly the faith alone crowd claims to believe James, and say it either means justified in front of man not God, or it means that genuine faith (alone) will then produce works as evidence of real conversion.
Take your pick. I prefer to just believe what the Bible says without all the mental gymnastics to hold on to OSAS despite the Bible saying clearly in the latter days many will depart from the faith.
1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
Just as it is said by Jesus Christ Himself. "some believe for a while and then" and then what? are once saved always saved because they believed? Nope! It says in time of temptation they fall away. So these werent the gnostics described in the epistle of John who "went out from among us but were not of us" because these people clearly were in the faith, because they left it, many people believe for a while and then fall away, because of one reason or another. That is why we are told continously in the Bible to "hold fast" and be steady, these are not pointless warnings as they would be in the OSAS theology, no need to hold fast you are saved anyway. Might lose a bit of rewards but we know from day to day life that people do not care about that, no one is troubled by that, if people make it to heaven and get to eat their cake here too? They love it, and we see it in the Churches today, in action, the fruit this teaching has produced. "Hyper grace" you could say.
Luke 8:13
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
I was told by someone in the not by works thread that my conditions for salvation are not biblical, because I commented that we need to continue in the faith stedfast to be saved. They did not respond back to me after I posted a verse that says just that, because its hard to twist this simple verse:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
If I were to quote a verse prior to that, it would seem like its a job done and we're good to go:
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
We are reconciled now, its a done deal, OSAS! But again verse 23, gives the conditions as always. There is always a condition and that condition is almost always said to be REPENTANCE and FAITH. Produce fruit worthy of repentance (for those who argue that repent only means to change ones mind, true and this results in change of action)
I know I will probably just get "disagree" and ridicule for this post as was the case in the Not by works thread, but that is already speaking volumes in itself.
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It is sad how people can twist the word to suit their own belief system
they say james is the ONLY passage which says faith alone, Yet most passages which say we are saved by faith, have no other requirements, thus by defenition, mean faith alone
If people want to continue to try to save themselves by adding works to the cross, they will hav to answer to God
Jesus said it is finished (literally paid in full) he did not say, I did my part, now you do your part. ,
they say james is the ONLY passage which says faith alone, Yet most passages which say we are saved by faith, have no other requirements, thus by defenition, mean faith alone
If people want to continue to try to save themselves by adding works to the cross, they will hav to answer to God
Jesus said it is finished (literally paid in full) he did not say, I did my part, now you do your part. ,
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Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone and not by works. The moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, we are saved. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
This is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)
This is not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works." (James 2:14)
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You know context is most important.
James is not addressing saving faith... that being the faith that justifies before God, he is speaking to the faith that justifies/provides evidence of faith before men.
This is a well known accepted fact, but besides that one just has to read the whole book to see it is true.
James is not addressing saving faith... that being the faith that justifies before God, he is speaking to the faith that justifies/provides evidence of faith before men.
This is a well known accepted fact, but besides that one just has to read the whole book to see it is true.
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You are saved:
By faith in Christ
By obeying Christ
By calling upon the name of the Lord
By persevering to the end
All these, means love for others as Christ Has loved you. For love beareth all things (1 Cor 13:7). But love is never a thought, it is a work.
When all has been said, judgement is according to what men have done and never what they thought.
By faith in Christ
By obeying Christ
By calling upon the name of the Lord
By persevering to the end
All these, means love for others as Christ Has loved you. For love beareth all things (1 Cor 13:7). But love is never a thought, it is a work.
When all has been said, judgement is according to what men have done and never what they thought.
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At least you agree that no amount of charity will get us into heaven. 
Also, saving faith in Christ is not without repentance. (Acts 20:21) Be sure to not stop reading at verse 10 in 1 Corinthians 6 and go on to read verse 11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Also, be sure to take notice that in verse 9, Paul said, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?" *Compare with Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 3:9.
James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works" (James 2:14) and not authentic faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
So your motivation is to attack the OSAS doctrine. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). *Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ's finished work of redemption (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (dead, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults and false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually saved? His heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.
1 John 2:19 says they went out from us, but they were not of us and if they had been of us, then they would have continued with us.. Such people may have previously been in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, yet they departed and did not have saving faith/were not of us.
Also, saving faith in Christ is not without repentance. (Acts 20:21) Be sure to not stop reading at verse 10 in 1 Corinthians 6 and go on to read verse 11 - And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Also, be sure to take notice that in verse 9, Paul said, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?" *Compare with Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 John 3:9. James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone - "barren of works" (James 2:14) and not authentic faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.
So your motivation is to attack the OSAS doctrine. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). *Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ's finished work of redemption (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (dead, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*
The words "the faith" (Greek tês pisteôs) in this context means the apostolic faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines. Some who are in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith will in both doctrine and practice depart from it, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. Some "nominal" Christians will abandon the Christian faith, the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines for cults and false religions. That does not prove they were previously born again. In 1 John 2:19, we read - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Even though this shallow ground hearer in Luke 8:13 is said to have "believed," yet he is never said to have been "saved." How do we know that the shallow ground hearer was never actually saved? His heart condition is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer in the 4th soil, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was not "good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. Such soil represents a sinner not properly prepared in heart. People who "believe" and "rejoice" at the preaching of the gospel without a prepared heart, and without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" in themselves, do not experience real salvation.
IN CONTRAST TO - Mark 4:8 - But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. So the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly prepared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.
1 John 2:19 says they went out from us, but they were not of us and if they had been of us, then they would have continued with us.. Such people may have previously been in a state of professing adherence to the apostolic faith, yet they departed and did not have saving faith/were not of us.
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These are not pointless warnings for "nominal" Christians. Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion. Authentic faith "holds fast" and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
Nobody is teaching a license to sin. Hyper grace (continuously live like the devil, yet still saved) is one extreme and type 2 works salvation (which many in the NOSAS camp represent) is the other extreme.
Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe"mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief which results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
The word "if" in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
Continuance would show that a person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance they will be saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow faith was not grounded in the first place.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.
I gave you no disagree and I was not rude, just a friendly rebuttal.
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
Nobody is teaching a license to sin. Hyper grace (continuously live like the devil, yet still saved) is one extreme and type 2 works salvation (which many in the NOSAS camp represent) is the other extreme.
Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe"mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief which results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
The word "if" in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
Continuance would show that a person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance they will be saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow faith was not grounded in the first place.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.
I gave you no disagree and I was not rude, just a friendly rebuttal.
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
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These are not pointless warnings for "nominal" Christians. Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion. Authentic faith "holds fast" and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
Nobody is teaching a license to sin. Hyper grace (continuously live like the devil, yet still saved) is one extreme and type 2 works salvation (which many in the NOSAS camp represent) is the other extreme.
Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe"mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief which results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
The word "if" in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
Continuance would show that a person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance they will be saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow faith was not grounded in the first place.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.
I gave you no disagree and I was not rude, just a friendly rebuttal.
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
Nobody is teaching a license to sin. Hyper grace (continuously live like the devil, yet still saved) is one extreme and type 2 works salvation (which many in the NOSAS camp represent) is the other extreme.
Unlike saving belief, temporary, shallow belief is not rooted in a regenerate heart. How can no depth of earth, no root, no moisture, no fruit, represent saving belief? Also the same Greek word for believe "pisteuo" is used in James 2:19, in which we read that the demons believe"mental assent" that "there is one God," but they are not saved.
John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of firmly rooted, consummated belief which results in salvation." As we see in John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them.
Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not truly "believe unto salvation" and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil.
The word "if" in Colossians 1:23 is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."
Continuance would show that a person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Greek particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?
It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to infallibly know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance they will be saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow faith was not grounded in the first place.
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.
I gave you no disagree and I was not rude, just a friendly rebuttal.
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Believers are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
You are right, you do have a heart for Christ and it shows in your response and the way you deal with people, respectfully, while sticking to your position. I like that.
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Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
John 14:11-14
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Ephesians 4:11-16
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8
As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. We are the fellow workers of God and servants of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 6:1, 1Corinthians 3:9, Romans 6:16-23)
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:20
John 14:11-14
It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. Ephesians 4:11-16
For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. Romans 8:3-8
As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. We are the fellow workers of God and servants of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 6:1, 1Corinthians 3:9, Romans 6:16-23)
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:20
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Amen! The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. *So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. *So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
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“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” Jesus the Way to the Father Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:1-7
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Hebrews 1:1-3
“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:9-10
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God beq true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Hebrews 1:1-3
“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6
That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:9-10
What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God beq true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4
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We must not confuse "descriptive" passages of scripture with "prescriptive" passages of scripture. I hope you are not disregarding (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
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I hear this a lot from my Calvinist brothers in the faith. I must ask as a practical person, what difference does it make if its "descriptive" or "prescriptive"? The practical result is holiness if Scripture is applied in our life. The motivation for doing it is the same in either case, "God commanded it; I want to do it because God said it" I believe that is the motivation for everyone, on both sides of the debate.
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Descriptive is how those who are already saved conduct their lives and prescriptive is how one becomes saved. When descriptive passages of scripture get confused with prescriptive passages of scripture, the end result is "type 2 works salvation." I saw this a lot while attending the Roman Catholic church prior to my conversion several years ago.