Works
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Who is the letter of James addressed to?
First century diaspora Israelite's, or Gentiles?
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.
Are those diaspora Israelite's who are addressed in the letter of James, counted as having mental assent faith that tried to work for salvation by doing so called good deeds?
Or the faith of Abraham that God gives through trust/belief in Jesus Christ?
John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see My day. He saw it and was glad.”
What came first in Abraham?... Faith counted as righteousness?... Or mental assent faith that produced filthy rags?
James 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
I suppose that all the itchy eared types who adhere to a works for salvation doctrine, would leave those hypocritical places empty, along with the money in their pockets, if they only knew the truth.
John 8:31-32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Romans 3:22
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
First century diaspora Israelite's, or Gentiles?
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes in the Dispersion: Greetings.
Are those diaspora Israelite's who are addressed in the letter of James, counted as having mental assent faith that tried to work for salvation by doing so called good deeds?
Or the faith of Abraham that God gives through trust/belief in Jesus Christ?
John 8:56
Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see My day. He saw it and was glad.”
What came first in Abraham?... Faith counted as righteousness?... Or mental assent faith that produced filthy rags?
James 2:23
and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
I suppose that all the itchy eared types who adhere to a works for salvation doctrine, would leave those hypocritical places empty, along with the money in their pockets, if they only knew the truth.
John 8:31-32
So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Romans 3:22
the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:
Romans 4:5
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
The many peddle works....they will not make the cut!
THE contrast in James is between SAVING FAITH and a MERE BELIEF IN GOD which the JEWS struggle with to this very day....but hey.....context be damned!
THE contrast in James is between SAVING FAITH and a MERE BELIEF IN GOD which the JEWS struggle with to this very day....but hey.....context be damned!
And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1st Corinthians 13:13
1st Corinthians 13:13
You might as well stand at a brick wall and argue with this one Blue......
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
well we don't let ourselves into heaven
so that doesn't work for God actually
My understanding of James' epistle where he addresses the concept between faith and works, is that he is correcting the misconception that one can claim to have faith, but act in any manner that they like. James is forced to juxtapose the two concepts in order to contrast the merits of both, and of the symbiosis that lies between them. Simply put, faith elicits works. That is, works do not justify one's standing with God, but it does qualify your faith, which it is your faith that justifies you before God.
James is simply addressing the insincere within the Church, who justify their licentiousness by exploiting the glorious and profound principle of faith.
James is simply addressing the insincere within the Church, who justify their licentiousness by exploiting the glorious and profound principle of faith.
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
maybe i need to clarify. whatever theology works for you..stick to the basics
Good works are a product of faith, following where Holy Spirit God leads us to serve. Works in and of themselves do not save.
1st Corinthians 13:13
And now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity.
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!
In James 2:22, faith made perfect by works means bring to maturity, to complete, like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In James 2:22, faith made perfect by works means bring to maturity, to complete, like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In regards to 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul uses hyperbole (obvious and intentional exaggeration) about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love, but Paul is not exaggerating about the importance of love. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love." Love is the greater quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the governing principle that controls all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity.
We won't need faith and hope in heaven in the presence of the Lord in our glorified bodies. Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the merits of our best efforts to love.
All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
We won't need faith and hope in heaven in the presence of the Lord in our glorified bodies. Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the merits of our best efforts to love.
All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
M
morefaithrequired
Guest
Salvation via faith alone sounds tempting. You mean I don't have to do any charity work or volunteering?
Our motivation for charity work or volunteering is love (faith works through love - Galatians 5:6) and not, "I must or else!" Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. All the charity work or volunteering in the world could never earn our way into heaven.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Rom 4:
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
we need to face the facts, Either james and Paul contradict each other. Or people are misinterpreting what James is saying.
The fact is, People are misinterpreting james. James makes it clear. IF people CLAIM to have faith. Yet HAVE ZERO WORKS, can that TYPE of faith (A dead fath) SAVE THEM?
No!
Mere belief, which will NOT produce works. Does not save. Just because you believe in God does nto mean you are saved, Even demons believe, It takes TRUE saving faith. And guess what? SAVING FAITH ALWAYS PRODUCES WORKS. Ie, it will NEVER be alone!
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father[a] has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted [c]as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
we need to face the facts, Either james and Paul contradict each other. Or people are misinterpreting what James is saying.
The fact is, People are misinterpreting james. James makes it clear. IF people CLAIM to have faith. Yet HAVE ZERO WORKS, can that TYPE of faith (A dead fath) SAVE THEM?
No!
Mere belief, which will NOT produce works. Does not save. Just because you believe in God does nto mean you are saved, Even demons believe, It takes TRUE saving faith. And guess what? SAVING FAITH ALWAYS PRODUCES WORKS. Ie, it will NEVER be alone!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Salvation by works sounds very tempting. You get to take credit for doing the work only God could do.