How can you live with what Christ has done for us, live by accepting Christ when you insist on discarding much of what the Lord tells us by using the word obsolete on all you tell us of? Christ fulfilled all the OT, but you use the word obsolete as a wipe out tool. Then you try to put limits on God's law that is much of the entire scripture into a few sentences. The law is all you say, but there is a vast amount more.
SHOULD WE CHECK OUR DENOMINATIONS FOR TRUTH?
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I have been trying my best to get you to understand the difference between obsolete and all the words you have been using to tell us about you conception of obsolete and NOW! you say you understand it and are so much more in the know of everything you can advise me even about this. Sigh, as you say.
"Discarding" is YOUR word, not mine. How many times do I need to tell you that?
"Obsolete" is what GOD calls the old covenant. Take it up with Him.
Your sentences are starting to get incoherent. Perhaps it's time to take a break.
"Obsolete" is what GOD calls the old covenant. Take it up with Him.
Your sentences are starting to get incoherent. Perhaps it's time to take a break.
What scripture says that precisely please?
The sheep must hear the word so as to know the Shepherd.
The Book of John chapter 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
16. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
The Book of John chapter 10 Commentary:
Entereth not by the door ... Christ is the true door (John 10:7) of access to the sheep who are the true Israel of God. It was Christ the door who opened up the whole burden of Old Testament prophecy concerning him and whose coming into the world was the only reason for the existence of Israel as a chosen people. On the other hand, the vicious, secular priests then in charge of Israel had usurped authority over God's Israel, having not entered through Christ the true door at all, but having climbed up by political and coercive means.
The same is a thief and a robber ... This may not be doubted. Jesus referred to the same men as having made the temple a den of thieves and robbers; and here they are compared to violent outlaws who climb the wall to plunder the sheep belonging to another. See also under John 10:8.
_________________Verse 8 All that came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them.
As Richardson noted:To the rulers who fattened themselves at the expense of the flock, the Sadducean high priests, and Pharisaic doctors, the Herods and the Roman procurators - all these wicked shepherds (in the sense of Ezekiel 34) had climbed into their place of domination over the flock by illegitimate means; and it was they who conspired against the Divine Shepherd, who would lay down his life for the sheep and who would gather together into one flock the scattered children of God.[13]
_______________Verse 9 I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out and find pasture.
I am the door ... has here a different meaning. In John 10:8, it referred to the access of the Lord to his flock; here it refers to the access of men to salvation, or, in terms of the metaphor, access to the sheepfold. Here is the mixing of the metaphor and the reality for which it stands in the same sentence. Sheep do not find salvation, and Christians do not find pasture; but both concepts are in this verse. Remarkably, the same mixed metaphor is in the Old Testament, "So we thy people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever" (Psalms 79:13). Of course, sheep do not give thanks; but it was part of the genius of inspiration that metaphors were mingled in both testaments. Attention to such details as this is prerequisite to understanding this remarkable passage.
Shepherd a Metaphor
Separation from our Father is an illusion of the flesh. That is why when we hear the Gospel, particularly if we are hitting rock bottom in our lives due to stress, finances, what have you, something makes us seek God, an answer, a life raft, Salvation from our current predicament.
We are all of God, as He tells us. Jesus came to call the sheep that know that, that know the voice that reaches that inner consciousness that is one with God as creator of "self" and "I".
Did you know that in science, the "Double-Slit" experiment found that each light photon has awareness? Science realized that consciousness exists in all the universe at a subatomic level.
We that read the scripture can say we already knew that because the God that has always been there told us so. That's the deeper meaning of God's Omniscient quality. Eternally present in all things.
The Book of Colossians chapter 1
The Preeminence of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[f] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
The sheep must hear the word so as to know the Shepherd.
The Book of John chapter 10
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”
16. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
The Book of John chapter 10 Commentary:
Entereth not by the door ... Christ is the true door (John 10:7) of access to the sheep who are the true Israel of God. It was Christ the door who opened up the whole burden of Old Testament prophecy concerning him and whose coming into the world was the only reason for the existence of Israel as a chosen people. On the other hand, the vicious, secular priests then in charge of Israel had usurped authority over God's Israel, having not entered through Christ the true door at all, but having climbed up by political and coercive means.
The same is a thief and a robber ... This may not be doubted. Jesus referred to the same men as having made the temple a den of thieves and robbers; and here they are compared to violent outlaws who climb the wall to plunder the sheep belonging to another. See also under John 10:8.
_________________Verse 8 All that came before me are thieves and robbers; but the sheep did not hear them.
As Richardson noted:To the rulers who fattened themselves at the expense of the flock, the Sadducean high priests, and Pharisaic doctors, the Herods and the Roman procurators - all these wicked shepherds (in the sense of Ezekiel 34) had climbed into their place of domination over the flock by illegitimate means; and it was they who conspired against the Divine Shepherd, who would lay down his life for the sheep and who would gather together into one flock the scattered children of God.[13]
_______________Verse 9 I am the door; by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out and find pasture.
I am the door ... has here a different meaning. In John 10:8, it referred to the access of the Lord to his flock; here it refers to the access of men to salvation, or, in terms of the metaphor, access to the sheepfold. Here is the mixing of the metaphor and the reality for which it stands in the same sentence. Sheep do not find salvation, and Christians do not find pasture; but both concepts are in this verse. Remarkably, the same mixed metaphor is in the Old Testament, "So we thy people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever" (Psalms 79:13). Of course, sheep do not give thanks; but it was part of the genius of inspiration that metaphors were mingled in both testaments. Attention to such details as this is prerequisite to understanding this remarkable passage.
Shepherd a Metaphor
Separation from our Father is an illusion of the flesh. That is why when we hear the Gospel, particularly if we are hitting rock bottom in our lives due to stress, finances, what have you, something makes us seek God, an answer, a life raft, Salvation from our current predicament.
We are all of God, as He tells us. Jesus came to call the sheep that know that, that know the voice that reaches that inner consciousness that is one with God as creator of "self" and "I".
Did you know that in science, the "Double-Slit" experiment found that each light photon has awareness? Science realized that consciousness exists in all the universe at a subatomic level.
We that read the scripture can say we already knew that because the God that has always been there told us so. That's the deeper meaning of God's Omniscient quality. Eternally present in all things.
The Book of Colossians chapter 1
The Preeminence of Christ
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by[f] him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
L
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
Romans 14:5-7
Romans 14:5-7
Why don't you study Scripture properly and carefully?
Hebrews 8:13 says that God has made the Old Covenant OBSOLETE.
ἐν τῷ λέγειν, Καινὴν πεπαλαίωκε* τὴν πρώτην. τὸ δὲ παλαιούμενον καὶ γηράσκον, ἐγγὺς ἀφανισμοῦ.
*Strong's Concordance (3822)
palaioó: to make or declare old
Original Word: παλαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: palaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ah-yo'-o)
Definition: to make or declare old
Usage: I make old, declare obsolete; pass: I grow old, become obsolete.
In fact several modern translations (which I normally shun) used the exact word "obsolete".
New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
New Living Translation
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
New American Standard Bible
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
So if God says He has made the first (or old) Covenant obsolete, you are in fact opposing God and Christ. Not only that but this verse also says that it is about to vanish away!
Hebrews 8:13 says that God has made the Old Covenant OBSOLETE.
ἐν τῷ λέγειν, Καινὴν πεπαλαίωκε* τὴν πρώτην. τὸ δὲ παλαιούμενον καὶ γηράσκον, ἐγγὺς ἀφανισμοῦ.
*Strong's Concordance (3822)
palaioó: to make or declare old
Original Word: παλαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: palaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (pal-ah-yo'-o)
Definition: to make or declare old
Usage: I make old, declare obsolete; pass: I grow old, become obsolete.
In fact several modern translations (which I normally shun) used the exact word "obsolete".
New International Version
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
New Living Translation
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.
English Standard Version
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
New American Standard Bible
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
So if God says He has made the first (or old) Covenant obsolete, you are in fact opposing God and Christ. Not only that but this verse also says that it is about to vanish away!
This is so often quoted and used as a reason for them to get rid of the Lord;s instruction to us. If we followed this as the Lord's guidance of all our actions it would eliminate Christmas, Sunday, Easter, or anything with dates. I cannot believe that God wants that for us. God does want us to not judge others, for that is only the Lord's place in our lives.
This is only put in scripture once, other instructions can be followed all through scripture. As an example, to honor the Sabbath is repeated over and over, yet this of often ignored by Christians who carefully obey this by using it as a reason to not honor other instructions, although it only speaks of judging, not of honoring God at a specified time.
This is only put in scripture once, other instructions can be followed all through scripture. As an example, to honor the Sabbath is repeated over and over, yet this of often ignored by Christians who carefully obey this by using it as a reason to not honor other instructions, although it only speaks of judging, not of honoring God at a specified time.
L
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;
Romans 14:5-7
Romans 14:5-7
L
I often wonder how a person calls themself a Christian but will refute what scripture literally says in order to hold on to their personal preference.
As these scriptures say we are free from these things because Jesus is the substance there of. Celebrate Jesus as he prescribed, by partaking of his body and blood in the form of bread and wine, in remembrance of him.
As these scriptures say we are free from these things because Jesus is the substance there of. Celebrate Jesus as he prescribed, by partaking of his body and blood in the form of bread and wine, in remembrance of him.
The version changed nothing, and the version added nothing; that is a fallacy of reification. The men (plural) who did the translating did not work from their "personal interpretation". They are Greek scholars who did their very best to determine the most accurate English words to capture the sense of the Greek.
The words in the KJV don't convey the sense today that they may have in 1611. Words change. Deal with it.
The words in the KJV don't convey the sense today that they may have in 1611. Words change. Deal with it.