Can We Possess Salvation, For All Eternity, Without a Glorified Body?
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From what you just said here I think I need some clarification. Do you claim to be a Christian and if so do you have salvation without having a glorified body yet? Secondly, who are these people your talking about that claim that they have salvation without having a glorified body? 
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
From what you just said here I think I need some clarification. Do you claim to be a Christian and if so do you have salvation without having a glorified body yet? Secondly, who are these people your talking about that claim that they have salvation without having a glorified body?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Christians who choose despair want to think they can have salvation without a glorified body.
Ok, then who are the "despaired" ones that you know that think they can have salvation without a gloriried body? I'm asking because I have never heard of this before.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Jesus said that the kingdom of God comes without observation, for they will not say here it is, or there it is, for behold the kingdom of God is within you and that is when you receive the Spirit, so you belong to the kingdom then, and if you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law which means the law cannot touch you for prosecution.
That is if you are led of the Spirit, which some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
We cannot possess eternal life without a glorified body in the afterlife because for one we need a body to replace the fleshy body that we started out with for we are not going to be a soul only in heaven, for we started out with a body and we will have a body for eternity for that is our design, because a soul alone is not a body and we need a body.
And two it is already written that we will have a glorified body in the scriptures with eternal life so unless you can accomplish eternal life on your own without Jesus and be a soul only then you will have a glorified body.
But in Revelation there is souls under the altar with Jesus and they ask Him when He is going to avenge them, and He says when the saints in the tribulation join them which then all the saints will be with Jesus.
But I do not believe they have their glorified body at that time, and the Bible says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, and when the resurrection happens the dead rise first, but their soul is already with Jesus, so I believe it means they receive their glorified body first, and then those that remain on earth are caught up alive and then they receive their glorified body.
And concerning the fallen angels as some might say why can't they repent and be saved, and restored.
That is because they are one being and do not have multiple parts like we do, and when they sinned they tainted their whole being with no way to put off the sin.
But a human is soul and flesh, and all sin resides in the flesh so it can be put off with the sin, and the soul can live on forever with Jesus.
So while the flesh can condemn us if we do not turn to the truth it is because of the flesh that we can be saved.
God created angels with a choice and if they sin there is no reversal, and God created a human with a body and soul and if they sin there is reversal if they turn to the truth.
That is if you are led of the Spirit, which some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
We cannot possess eternal life without a glorified body in the afterlife because for one we need a body to replace the fleshy body that we started out with for we are not going to be a soul only in heaven, for we started out with a body and we will have a body for eternity for that is our design, because a soul alone is not a body and we need a body.
And two it is already written that we will have a glorified body in the scriptures with eternal life so unless you can accomplish eternal life on your own without Jesus and be a soul only then you will have a glorified body.
But in Revelation there is souls under the altar with Jesus and they ask Him when He is going to avenge them, and He says when the saints in the tribulation join them which then all the saints will be with Jesus.
But I do not believe they have their glorified body at that time, and the Bible says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, and when the resurrection happens the dead rise first, but their soul is already with Jesus, so I believe it means they receive their glorified body first, and then those that remain on earth are caught up alive and then they receive their glorified body.
And concerning the fallen angels as some might say why can't they repent and be saved, and restored.
That is because they are one being and do not have multiple parts like we do, and when they sinned they tainted their whole being with no way to put off the sin.
But a human is soul and flesh, and all sin resides in the flesh so it can be put off with the sin, and the soul can live on forever with Jesus.
So while the flesh can condemn us if we do not turn to the truth it is because of the flesh that we can be saved.
God created angels with a choice and if they sin there is no reversal, and God created a human with a body and soul and if they sin there is reversal if they turn to the truth.
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Since God has ordained that the saints be resurrected, how else would one possess eternal salvation. I am not 100% sold on the term 'glorified body'. I think I know what proof-texts that phrase came from. Christ said He would be glorified. Later He was resurrected. I suppose the line of reasoning goes that His new body was 'glorified' and that since we shall be like Him, that incorruptable, immortal body we will have will be 'glorified.' But I am not 100% comfortable with us being 'glorified' since the scriptures do not state that. Yet we sing songs about giving all the glory to God.
How about we use 'immortal bodies' since I Corinthians 15 uses 'immortality.'
I notice a lot of language like "When you die and go to heaven" and "reward in heaven" and "Are you going to heaven when you die?" in American Christian terminology. But in the Bible, I read about the hope of the resurrection.
I kind of realized that, and then I had a conversation with a theologian where a phrase like"die and go to heaven"-- a phrase I heard a lot of-- came out of my mouth. He said something along the lines, "The Bible never explicitly says we go to heaven when we die" and went on to talk about the resurrection. People infer heaven from Paul's statement that he would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
But the Biblical information we have about our future state focuses on the resurrection.
I had never been to any kind of Roman Catholic service, but a friend from church had a son who was shot, and he had gone to a Roman Catholic university. A funeral service was held in the chapel. I attended, and listened to the liturgy. They actually had instrumental music-- violins and some songs sung. I don't recall any theologically objectional content in that. Most of it was not something I found theologically objectionable except for addressing Mary toward the end of the service.
One thing I noticed in the liturgy was the constant reference to the resurrection. I had heard that Roman Catholics pray for the dead. They did, but the prayer was a recited prayer basically asking God to remember his promise of the resurrection and to raise the deceased from the dead.
Several months later, a Pentecostal pastor's in-law died in a motorcycle accident. I went to the service, and they had eulogies. I heard many references to seeing him in heaven, dying and going to heaven. I went to a Baptist funeral later, and I heard references to the deceased being in heaven, dying and going to heaven. I listened for it, and I did not catch a single reference to the resurrection of the dead in either funeral.
The irony was, aside from the references to praying to Mary and the issue of whether it is appropriate to pray for the dead by reminding God of the promise of the resurrection... and a one-off comment from the priest about the deceased being an angel looking over us (though in a personal conversation later, he affirmed that he believed the angels were a separate order of creation not the human dead)... it seemed like the Roman Catholic funeral was more 'Biblically orthodox' in my estimation than either the Baptist or the Pentecostal funeral. That is not the most pleasant thing for me to say since I spent more time around those types of churches growing up Pentecostal with Baptist relatives on both sides of the family.
Paul already told us how to comfort one another. We are not to grieve as those who have no hope. Paul did not instruct the church to say, 'he died and went to heaven.' Instead, he said the dead in Christ shall rise first, and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
We are not to grieve as those who have no hope. I did a word study on 'hope' in the New Testament and found that it was associated with the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. I have heard sermons about the 'hope of heaven', but I did not find that kind of terminology in the New Testament.
How about we use 'immortal bodies' since I Corinthians 15 uses 'immortality.'
I notice a lot of language like "When you die and go to heaven" and "reward in heaven" and "Are you going to heaven when you die?" in American Christian terminology. But in the Bible, I read about the hope of the resurrection.
I kind of realized that, and then I had a conversation with a theologian where a phrase like"die and go to heaven"-- a phrase I heard a lot of-- came out of my mouth. He said something along the lines, "The Bible never explicitly says we go to heaven when we die" and went on to talk about the resurrection. People infer heaven from Paul's statement that he would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord.
But the Biblical information we have about our future state focuses on the resurrection.
I had never been to any kind of Roman Catholic service, but a friend from church had a son who was shot, and he had gone to a Roman Catholic university. A funeral service was held in the chapel. I attended, and listened to the liturgy. They actually had instrumental music-- violins and some songs sung. I don't recall any theologically objectional content in that. Most of it was not something I found theologically objectionable except for addressing Mary toward the end of the service.
One thing I noticed in the liturgy was the constant reference to the resurrection. I had heard that Roman Catholics pray for the dead. They did, but the prayer was a recited prayer basically asking God to remember his promise of the resurrection and to raise the deceased from the dead.
Several months later, a Pentecostal pastor's in-law died in a motorcycle accident. I went to the service, and they had eulogies. I heard many references to seeing him in heaven, dying and going to heaven. I went to a Baptist funeral later, and I heard references to the deceased being in heaven, dying and going to heaven. I listened for it, and I did not catch a single reference to the resurrection of the dead in either funeral.
The irony was, aside from the references to praying to Mary and the issue of whether it is appropriate to pray for the dead by reminding God of the promise of the resurrection... and a one-off comment from the priest about the deceased being an angel looking over us (though in a personal conversation later, he affirmed that he believed the angels were a separate order of creation not the human dead)... it seemed like the Roman Catholic funeral was more 'Biblically orthodox' in my estimation than either the Baptist or the Pentecostal funeral. That is not the most pleasant thing for me to say since I spent more time around those types of churches growing up Pentecostal with Baptist relatives on both sides of the family.
Paul already told us how to comfort one another. We are not to grieve as those who have no hope. Paul did not instruct the church to say, 'he died and went to heaven.' Instead, he said the dead in Christ shall rise first, and we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
We are not to grieve as those who have no hope. I did a word study on 'hope' in the New Testament and found that it was associated with the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead. I have heard sermons about the 'hope of heaven', but I did not find that kind of terminology in the New Testament.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Romans 8:22-25
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:9-11
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:27-28
I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 2 Corinthians 11:2
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Ephesians 5:23
Has the Great day of judgment come without us knowing it or is it no longer the concern of those who claim OSAS?
Has Jesus appeared a second time to bring salvation? Has the church been presented to Him as a pure virgin(glorified)?
...Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:4
God bless.
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. Philippians 3:12-16
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:9-11
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. Hebrews 9:27-28
I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 2 Corinthians 11:2
For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Ephesians 5:23
Has the Great day of judgment come without us knowing it or is it no longer the concern of those who claim OSAS?
Has Jesus appeared a second time to bring salvation? Has the church been presented to Him as a pure virgin(glorified)?
...Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:4
God bless.