Why is the "Message Of The Cross" foolishness to those who are perishing...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#1
...but to us who are being saved it is the power of God? 1 Corinthians 1:18
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#2
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing because it is completely contrary to human behavior and human reasoning. It is essentially irrational to the unsaved. We could go into great detail as to why it is regarded as such but unless the Holy Spirit reveals the meaning of the cross of Christ through the Gospel, it remains inexplicable.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#3
Many on CC believe that the "Message of the Cross" is the Jimmy Swaggart doctrine. The Apostle Paul clearly states in Romans 2:16 these words, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Let me repeat this because this is very, very, important! Paul said the person will be judge by his gospel! Which is the "Message of the Cross." Christ Crucified! In other words, was your Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won. No other way will God award righteousness to the Believer.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#4
What exactly is the Jimmy Swaggart "Message of the Cross" doctine?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#5
If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 1 Cor 15:14
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#6
What exactly is the Jimmy Swaggart "Message of the Cross" doctine?
It is not Jimmy Swaggart doctrine. It is the sanctification for the saint so they will receive the help of the Holy Spirit to live a victorious life.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and He will shew them His covenant. Psalm 25:14
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#7
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
13,746
113
#8
Many on CC believe that the "Message of the Cross" is the Jimmy Swaggart doctrine. The Apostle Paul clearly states in Romans 2:16 these words, "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Let me repeat this because this is very, very, important! Paul said the person will be judge by his gospel! Which is the "Message of the Cross." Christ Crucified! In other words, was your Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won. No other way will God award righteousness to the Believer.
The message of the cross is biblical. The "Message of the Cross" is Swaggart's idolatry; note the difference in capitalization. You preach a false gospel pablum that turns the cross itself into an idol and ignores the infinitely greater importance of the One Who died on it and was resurrected. You, meanwhile, stubbornly ignore correction. You don't even post plain Scripture; you post Swaggart's corrupted commentary. Instead of your accusatory bloviating, throw away your cultic propaganda, get your head out of your dark little box and start reading the pure Scripture for yourself.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#9
Why do 99% on CC will place their Faith in Christ, but not Christ and the Cross. Faith placed in Christ alone and not the Cross is another Jesus! Do you believe this?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#10
It is not Jimmy Swaggart doctrine. It is the sanctification for the saint so they will receive the help of the Holy Spirit to live a victorious life.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:6

The secret of the Lord is with them that fear Him; and He will shew them His covenant. Psalm 25:14
Many on CC believe that the "Message of the Cross" is the Jimmy Swaggart doctrine.
I never really listened to Jimmy Swaggart, so I'm not familiar with his doctrine, but I do believe in ongoing sanctification for the saint which follows believing the gospel unto salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#11
Why do 99% on CC will place their Faith in Christ, but not Christ and the Cross. Faith placed in Christ alone and not the Cross is another Jesus! Do you believe this?
Who does this? Believers have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16) Who would place their faith in Christ, yet exclude His finished work on the cross? o_O What would such a person be placing their faith in (in regards to Christ, minus His finished work of redemption?) :unsure:
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#12
I never really listened to Jimmy Swaggart, so I'm not familiar with his doctrine, but I do believe in ongoing sanctification for the saint which follows believing the gospel unto salvation.
Sanctification is not automatic! That is why Paul said, "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

If it is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified it is law! You have come up with another way to live for God other than Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#14
Sanctification is not automatic!
I don't hear anyone saying that it is automatic, yet sanctification has no bearing on justification. That is, even if we don't live a sinless, perfect life 100% of the time (which we won't) and whether we are babes in Christ or mature in Christ, believers are still justified by faith. (Romans 5:1)

That is why Paul said, "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." If it is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified it is law! You have come up with another way to live for God other than Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross.
We are certainly not justified by the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. (Galatians 2:16) Saving faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross. His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:22-28)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
13,746
113
#15
Sanctification is not automatic! That is why Paul said, "I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

If it is not Faith in Christ and Him Crucified it is law! You have come up with another way to live for God other than Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross.
This is wrong on two counts. First, your retort is irrelevant to Dan's comment; he is not arguing for the Law as the means to sanctification. The Law has nothing to do with this discussion; that's a red herring you're attempting to drag in. Secondly, the cross never did anything for anyone. That is the root of your false gospel.

Christ alone is God in flesh; the cross isn't.
Christ alone paid the penalty for our sin; the cross didn't.
Christ alone was raised from the dead; the cross wasn't.
Christ alone will judge the living and the dead; the cross won't.

Throw away your idol and your false gospel.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,468
13,412
113
58
#16
This is wrong on two counts. First, your retort is irrelevant to Dan's comment; he is not arguing for the Law as the means to sanctification. The Law has nothing to do with this discussion; that's a red herring you're attempting to drag in. Secondly, the cross never did anything for anyone. That is the root of your false gospel.

Christ alone is God in flesh; the cross isn't.
Christ alone paid the penalty for our sin; the cross didn't.
Christ alone was raised from the dead; the cross wasn't.
Christ alone will judge the living and the dead; the cross won't.

Throw away your idol and your false gospel.
What exactly does he mean by, "THE CROSS?" Hyper Lordship salvation or something to that effect? :unsure:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,404
13,746
113
#17
What exactly does he mean by, "THE CROSS?" Hyper Lordship salvation or something to that effect? :unsure:
Swaggart made an idol of "the Cross" (always capitalized). MoTC repeatedly claims that it is a synecdoche* for the the Person and finished work of Christ, but always there is an unbalanced emphasis on the capitalized term, while the Person is very much secondary.

*a synecdoche is "a figure of speech in which a part is made to represent the whole or vice versa (source: merriamwebster.com).
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#18
yet sanctification has no bearing on justification.
Righteousness is only awarded by God by Faith in Christ and Him Crucified (Romans 4:5); therefore you can't be justified.

It is by "Grace" through "Faith" that the "Temple" is built. The "Temple was to be built under Solomon; not the sound of a hammer, not the sound of a tool, i.e., not one sound of mans labor.

The only thing that God will accept from any Believer is "Faith" in His Son Jesus and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#19
*a synecdoche is "a figure of speech in which a part is made to represent the whole or vice versa (source: merriamwebster.com).
I learned a new word today :D Thank you! But I cannot pronounce it :giggle:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,909
29,289
113
#20
Righteousness is only awarded by God by Faith in Christ and Him Crucified (Romans 4:5);
therefore you can't be justified.
Eh? :unsure:

Romans 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God
who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.