Romans 10 REFUTES:TULIP, works salvation, and baptism for salvation

[Dino246]

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel, (Gen 33:28). Jacob, who is called Israel, is representative of God's elect (Rom 9:11). Romans 10:1 has reference to Jacob, as being Israel, and not the nation of Israel. Saved according to Greek interpretation means "delivered". Paul is not praying that they would be delivered eternally because they are secure in their eternal deliverance. Paul is praying that they would be delivered from their lack of knowledge of the gospel. They did not understand that in the new birth Christ imputed his righteousness unto them and were going about trying to establish their righteousness by their good works. They were still babes in Christ and are living on the milk of the gospel and not on the meat of the gospel. That is the reason that Jesus instructed his Apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep (God's elect) of the house of Israel (Jacob).

Wow... let's just ignore context completely and make up fantasies.

A main point of Paul's letter to the Romans was that ethnic Jews were not automatically saved (eternally delivered from damnation). Much of chapter 3 addresses this. Despite their adherence to the Law, most of the Jews had not come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Only in Christ is anyone saved, Jew or gentile.

Your position would make salvation contingent on ethnicity. It isn't, and never was. Your semantic argument makes the gospel irrelevant. Those who have heard the gospel and believed are babes in Christ; those who have heard the gospel and not believed are not saved, regardless of who their daddy was. Paul says clearly in 9:32 that Israel did not pursue righteousness by faith, which is the only way anyone ever attained it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Wow... let's just ignore context completely and make up fantasies.

Correct. Just more vain jangling.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Wow... let's just ignore context completely and make up fantasies.

A main point of Paul's letter to the Romans was that ethnic Jews were not automatically saved (eternally delivered from damnation). Much of chapter 3 addresses this. Despite their adherence to the Law, most of the Jews had not come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Only in Christ is anyone saved, Jew or gentile.

Your position would make salvation contingent on ethnicity. It isn't, and never was. Your semantic argument makes the gospel irrelevant. Those who have heard the gospel and believed are babes in Christ; those who have heard the gospel and not believed are not saved, regardless of who their daddy was. Paul says clearly in 9:32 that Israel did not pursue righteousness by faith, which is the only way anyone ever attained it.

The natural man does not have spiritual faith which is the only way to understand the things of the Spirit until he has already been born of the Spirit in the new birth. Those of Israel who have been born again and are babes in Christ have spiritual faith but because they are babes in Christ their faith is weak and they are in need to be taught the meat of the gospel. So, the gospel IS NOT IRRELEVANT. Go and preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Correct. Just more vain jangling.

I believe you to be of the sheep, but just one of the lost sheep.

 

[Dino246]

The natural man does not have spiritual faith which is the only way to understand the things of the Spirit until he has already been born of the Spirit in the new birth. Those of Israel who have been born again and are babes in Christ have spiritual faith but because they are babes in Christ their faith is weak and they are in need to be taught the meat of the gospel. So, the gospel IS NOT IRRELEVANT. Go and preach to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

You and Paul are not talking about the same people. The people in Romans 10 WERE NOT "babes in Christ". Verse 1 tells you that, but instead of believing it, you have redefined "saved". That's a great way to develop false doctrine.

I believe you to be of the sheep, but just one of the lost sheep.

You got in my face last week for challenging a false teacher. Your comment here is much worse. Get some integrity.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You and Paul are not talking about the same people. The people in Romans 10 WERE NOT "babes in Christ". Verse 1 tells you that, but instead of believing it, you have redefined "saved". That's a great way to develop false doctrine.


You got in my face last week for challenging a false teacher. Your comment here is much worse. Get some integrity.

Look up the Greek interpretation of the word saved and see for yourself. it means "delivered".

 

[Dino246]

Look up the Greek interpretation of the word saved and see for yourself. it means "delivered".

Look up the meaning of "irrelevant". You're playing word games. Unless the Greek word in verse 1 is a different word than in every other verse having "saved", your point is completely moot.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Look up the meaning of "irrelevant". You're playing word games. Unless the Greek word in verse 1 is a different word than in every other verse having "saved", your point is completely moot.

My answer to that statement is; You can not ignore any of the scriptures, they must all harmonize.

 

[Angela53510]

Look up the Greek interpretation of the word saved and see for yourself. it means "delivered".

I do not know what Greek tools you are using. I use BDAG (Bauer) the best Greek Lexicon, which scholars use. Yes, "deliver" is one gloss for soso, but so is saved. I'm not at home and don't have my Lexicon with me, but I am throughly tired of this misuse of Greek. I'll type it all out when I get home!

I have 2 years of Master's level Greek, and I excel at it. I studied under one of the top Greek scholars in the world. You keep challenging people with this point, and it is a half truth at best. You have no knowledge of Greek, so please cease and desist mouthing things you know nothing about!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

I do not know what Greek tools you are using. I use BDAG (Bauer) the best Greek Lexicon, which scholars use. Yes, "deliver" is one gloss for soso, but so is saved. I'm not at home and don't have my Lexicon with me, but I am throughly tired of this misuse of Greek. I'll type it all out when I get home!

I have 2 years of Master's level Greek, and I excel at it. I studied under one of the top Greek scholars in the world. You keep challenging people with this point, and it is a half truth at best. You have no knowledge of Greek, so please cease and desist mouthing things you know nothing about!

'soso'? 'soso? 'SOSO'???? Sozo.

 

[calibob]

My answer to that statement is; You can not ignore any of the scriptures, they must all harmonize.

What's your favorite Bible translation Forest?

 

[preacher4truth]

I do not know what Greek tools you are using. I use BDAG (Bauer) the best Greek Lexicon, which scholars use. Yes, "deliver" is one gloss for soso, but so is saved. I'm not at home and don't have my Lexicon with me, but I am throughly tired of this misuse of Greek. I'll type it all out when I get home!

I have 2 years of Master's level Greek, and I excel at it. I studied under one of the top Greek scholars in the world. You keep challenging people with this point, and it is a half truth at best. You have no knowledge of Greek, so please cease and desist mouthing things you know nothing about!

His false gospel is just a little deliverance of some sort only in this life. He plays this one stringed banjo all day.

He also preaches anyone who believes there is a god is regenerate and born from above taking 1 Corinthians 2:14 way out of context. Believing in anything spiritual to him means the person's have eternal life whether they believe in or deny Christ.

That would be universalism though since Romans 1 declares all know there is a creator God.

 

[calibob]

Unfortunately I've had a lifetimes worth of name it & claim it, and believe it preaching. The Bible has a lot of prayers in it but it is not some magical prayer book. The Lord didn't have scribes following him around quoting on or two line statements individually and separately in order to be used to confirm or deny an doctrines. He was and still is a live person and he talked to people like they (us) were (and are) real people in a language that they could understand. That also goes for the 8 authors of the New Testament. The translations into modern languages came 1600 years later with ancient texts and no punctuation. Well engrained with Vatican teachings and had confirmation bias. And older more original texts have been found since that's why there are so many translations and paraphrases on the market today.

Paraphrase's are far different than translations because paraphrase's are more like children's books dumbed down for the unlearned masses and some are deceptive and deceitful like the Jehovahs witnesses bibles. It takes study and discernment to sepperate the wheat from the chaff.

We used to have a joke about the 'Name it and claim it/ Prosperity preachers.' "Judas went and hanged himself, therefore go ye and do likewise!"

 

[garee]

Wow... let's just ignore context completely and make up fantasies.

A main point of Paul's letter to the Romans was that ethnic Jews were not automatically saved (eternally delivered from damnation). Much of chapter 3 addresses this. Despite their adherence to the Law, most of the Jews had not come to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Only in Christ is anyone saved, Jew or gentile.

Your position would make salvation contingent on ethnicity. It isn't, and never was. Your semantic argument makes the gospel irrelevant. Those who have heard the gospel and believed are babes in Christ; those who have heard the gospel and not believed are not saved, regardless of who their daddy was. Paul says clearly in 9:32 that Israel did not pursue righteousness by faith, which is the only way anyone ever attained it.

Wow... let's just ignore the meaning of words and completely and make up fantasies by changing the meaning..therefore violating the commandment not to. Change the meaning of one word (singular) change all the commandments (many)

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4;2

Since you don't understand the meaning of the term, "circular reasoning", it would really be better if you didn't use it.

Since you don't understand the meaning of the term, "circular reasoning", it would really be better if you didn't use it as if it was after the philosophies of men (no law of faith) .

laws of cause and effect is the circular source of reasoning . Break the law pay the price. Break the law pay the price. No perfect law no transgression. . men perish .

Not the philosophies of men . The circle law of faith cannot be broken .The philosophies of men never connect in order to make a perfect 360 degree seal.

Some philosophies of men say this some say that

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood (philosphies" non cirular reasoning" of men) hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven .Mathew16: 13-17

His circular reasoning cannot be broken .He is the Lion King from the tribe of Judah.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I do not know what Greek tools you are using. I use BDAG (Bauer) the best Greek Lexicon, which scholars use. Yes, "deliver" is one gloss for soso, but so is saved. I'm not at home and don't have my Lexicon with me, but I am throughly tired of this misuse of Greek. I'll type it all out when I get home!

I have 2 years of Master's level Greek, and I excel at it. I studied under one of the top Greek scholars in the world. You keep challenging people with this point, and it is a half truth at best. You have no knowledge of Greek, so please cease and desist mouthing things you know nothing about!

I thank the, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and delivered them unto babes.

 

[calibob]

I thank the, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and delivered them unto babes.

Thou hast? Unto? I had to look it up in modern English.
Matthew 11:25 25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, LORD of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." NIV But thats out of context again.

21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.” 25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children..."

Berean Study Bible

​

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Thou hast? Unto? I had to look it up in modern English.
Matthew 11:25 25At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, LORD of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." NIV But thats out of context again.

21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.” 25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children..."

Berean Study Bible

​

Not out of context. It is all summed up in the conclusion in verse 27, And he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

 

[Dino246]

Wow... let's just ignore the meaning of words and completely and make up fantasies by changing the meaning..therefore violating the commandment not to. Change the meaning of one word (singular) change all the commandments (many)

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4;2

Your response is both childish and ignorant of the context of my discussion with FGC. It's also aimed in the wrong direction; he is the one modifying the meaning of the term, not me.

Since you don't understand the meaning of the term, "circular reasoning", it would really be better if you didn't use it as if it was after the philosophies of men (no law of faith) .

laws of cause and effect is the circular source of reasoning . Break the law pay the price. Break the law pay the price. No perfect law no transgression. . men perish .

Not the philosophies of men . The circle law of faith cannot be broken .The philosophies of men never connect in order to make a perfect 360 degree seal.

Some philosophies of men say this some say that ...

His circular reasoning cannot be broken .He is the Lion King from the tribe of Judah.

You don't have a freaking clue what "circular reasoning" is because, despite my having told you and provided links explaining it in detail, you refuse to learn. Instead, you have invented your own worthless definition.

 

[calibob]

Not out of context. It is all summed up in the conclusion in verse 27, And he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

It started about the judgement upon certain cities will be harsher then Sodom and Gomorrah and praising the Lord that even children are smarter the leaders of those places. And you never quoted 11:27-30; so I will>
Matthew 11:27-30 27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
New International Version

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It started about the judgement upon certain cities will be harsher then Sodom and Gomorrah and praising the Lord that even children are smarter the leaders of those places. And you never quoted 11:27-30; so I will>
Matthew 11:27-30 27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. 28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
New International Version

And your point is?