Does a person have to be forgiven by God to be saved or healed?

[JamOn]

God works according to His word/promises/laws/truths.

Yes like the lost in need of help like the paraplegic

 

[know1]

You are very uninformed of just how awful the born again child of God can be by his nature. Probably all of those that you are condemning to hell are just disobedient children of God who need to repent to get back in fellowship with their God. When we are born again we have a security of living in heaven and when we backslide, we do not lose our eternal security, just our fellowship, temporally, until we repent.

Only to the young or babes in Christ, not to the mature.
You are digressing from the subject.
Tell me, are those who no longer believe the gospel but their good works will get them to heaven, born again or not?
What about those who claim to be born again but propagate, what you might refer to as, "doctrines of devils"? Are they children of God?
What about the Jehovah's Wickednesses, Morons, Charismaniacs, Quackers, and the like?
What about the wolves in sheep's clothing, and the tares AMONG the wheat, the ones in the churches with the true children of God?
And what about Jesus' parable, telling us to cut off and pluck out body parts that OFFEND us?
Have you ever thought about the child of God, who is part of the body of Christ getting cut off from His body?
God will not tell us to do something He won't do.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[know1]

After Jesus died to pay for the sins of those that God gave to Jesus, God looks upon them, as far as heaven is concerned, as holy and without blame. Any sin that they (those he atoned for) will ever commit will not keep them out of heaven. It will cause them to lose their fellowship with God, because God will not fellowship with sin, until they repent and gain back their fellowship with their God.

For the most part, that is correct.
God looks at the Man inside the new or hidden man within the man.
As you have stated, one does not lose their salvation just because they sin, but sin still has consequences, even for the children of God.
And part of those consequences, as I have shown scripturally above, can cause or be the cause of sicknesses.
Not always, but in many cases, it is the person's sins or that of the parent, that caused the sickness.
And for that reason, all believers, before they pray for their healing or that of a loved one, should repent of all their sins and that of the parents, and at least back to the forth generation, as sins and their curse, get handed down from one generation to at least the forth generation.
Until the sin is forgiven, the sin remains, and where the sin remains, the curse remains, and where the curse remains, so does the worker of said curse.

 

[know1]

Yes like the lost in need of help like the paraplegic

Exactly.

 

[know1]

Hello Know1,

Which bible you reading? Mine says that repentance is required, otherwise the unrepentant will perish:

At that time, some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” - Luke 13:1-5

Watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to say, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” – Luke 17:3-4

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18But in this way God has fulfilled what He foretold through all the prophets, saying that His Christ would suffer. Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away, 20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you. – Acts 3:17-22

Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. – 2 Pet.3:8-9

But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love. Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. – Rev.2:4-5

But I have a few things against you, because some of you hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block before the Israelites so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality. In the same way, some of you also hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth. – Rev.2:14-16

But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads My servants to be sexually immoral and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling. Behold, I will cast her onto a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her will suffer great tribulation unless they repent of her deeds. Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. – Rev.2:20-23

I know your deeds; you have a reputation for being alive, yet you are dead. 2Wake up and strengthen what remains, which was about to die; for I have found your deeds incomplete in the sight of My God. Remember, then, what you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know the hour when I will come upon you. – Rev.3:1-3

You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent. – Rev.3:19

Anyone who does not repent is willfully living according to the sinful nature, which leads to death.

Repentance is required, but repentance of or from what?
From their sin and sinful acts or ways, right?
But from what kind of sin and sinful acts and way?
For the unbeliever, they are to turn from their DOUBT AND UNBELIEF to believing the gospel.
That is there sin.
They don't need to repent of their sinful act/ways/deeds, WE, WHO BELIEVE, DO!!!
The sinner/unbeliever needs to repent of their doubts and unbelieving ways for their salvation, but we who believe, are to repent of the things/acts/deeds we do wrong, first, for forgiveness, so we can have the sin removed, and once again, have fellowship with the Father, but also for the purpose of either preventing or for the removal of the curse and the consequence of said sin.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Also, in Romans 10:8-10, notice what the only two requirements are to be born again.
Believe in your heart the lord Jesus and confess said belief with your mouth.
If one does that, ALL THEIR SIN ARE FORGIVEN AND WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS, WITHOUT ANY REPENTANCE OF THEIR SINFUL ACTS.
That, my friend, is reserved for we who believe.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we who believe are already forgiven and washed or cleansed in the blood of Jesus, then what are we being forgiven and cleansed of and for?

 

[Guojing]

Repentance is required, but repentance of or from what?
From their sin and sinful acts or ways, right?
But from what kind of sin and sinful acts and way?
For the unbeliever, they are to turn from their DOUBT AND UNBELIEF to believing the gospel.
That is there sin.
They don't need to repent of their sinful act/ways/deeds, WE, WHO BELIEVE, DO!!!
The sinner/unbeliever needs to repent of their doubts and unbelieving ways for their salvation, but we who believe, are to repent of the things/acts/deeds we do wrong, first, for forgiveness, so we can have the sin removed, and once again, have fellowship with the Father, but also for the purpose of either preventing or for the removal of the curse and the consequence of said sin.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Also, in Romans 10:8-10, notice what the only two requirements are to be born again.
Believe in your heart the lord Jesus and confess said belief with your mouth.
If one does that, ALL THEIR SIN ARE FORGIVEN AND WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS, WITHOUT ANY REPENTANCE OF THEIR SINFUL ACTS.
That, my friend, is reserved for we who believe.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we who believe are already forgiven and washed or cleansed in the blood of Jesus, then what are we being forgiven and cleansed of and for?

The idea of repentance is for the Jews and can be viewed from the parable of the tenants, told in all 3 synoptic gospels. (Matthew 21:28-46; Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-19)

When Jesus and the 12 were preaching from Matt-John, they need to repent of rejecting God their Father in the OT, and believe in his Son is their promised King and Messiah, as foretold by their prophets.

But as Jesus told them in the parable of the tenants, they were wicked and decided to slay the son instead, thinking they can then take control of the vineyard. The words they told Pilate was really horrific from this perspective

Matthew 27:24 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

When Jesus was on the cross, he asked his father to forgive them for this act, because they know not what they do, the Father agreed to Jesus request.

So when Peter urged his Jewish brothers at Pentecost to repent (Acts 2:38), they are to repent from their horrific act of murdering the Son of God, and accept him once again as the Son of God and their King.

But of course they did not, so God blinded them temporary.

Repentance for Gentiles is not strictly necessary. We need to believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for our sins. If there is repentance, it more to repent of our works to get right with God, and rest in Jesus's finished works.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hello Know1,

Which bible you reading? Mine says that repentance is required, otherwise the unrepentant will perish:

At that time, some of those present told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. To this He replied, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered this fate? No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem? No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” - Luke 13:1-5

Watch yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to say, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” – Luke 17:3-4

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and asked Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18But in this way God has fulfilled what He foretold through all the prophets, saying that His Christ would suffer. Repent, then, and turn back, so that your sins may be wiped away, 20that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ, who has been appointed for you. – Acts 3:17-22

Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. – 2 Pet.3:8-9

But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love. Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. – Rev.2:4-5

But I have a few things against you, because some of you hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to place a stumbling block before the Israelites so they would eat food sacrificed to idols and commit sexual immorality. In the same way, some of you also hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Therefore repent! Otherwise I will come to you shortly and wage war against them with the sword of My mouth. – Rev.2:14-16

But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads My servants to be sexually immoral and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Even though I have given her time to repent of her immorality, she is unwilling. Behold, I will cast her onto a bed of sickness, and those who commit adultery with her will suffer great tribulation unless they repent of her deeds. Then I will strike her children dead, and all the churches will know that I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. – Rev.2:20-23

I know your deeds; you have a reputation for being alive, yet you are dead. 2Wake up and strengthen what remains, which was about to die; for I have found your deeds incomplete in the sight of My God. Remember, then, what you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know the hour when I will come upon you. – Rev.3:1-3

You say, ‘I am rich; I have grown wealthy and need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. Those I love, I rebuke and discipline. Therefore be earnest and repent. – Rev.3:19

Anyone who does not repent is willfully living according to the sinful nature, which leads to death.

I do not know what version of the bible you study from, but the KJV reads different than what you have quoted about the Jew that Peter preached to on the day of pentecost. The KJV says that they were "pricked" in their heart, not cut to the heart. The people who stoned Steven to death were "cut to the heart". The difference in the two is their hearts. The people that stoned Steven had not had their heart changed from the stony heart to the fleshy heart in the new birth and the Jews, on the day of pentecost, were already born again and had the fleshy heart that could be pricked by the Holy Spirit to feel guilt.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Only to the young or babes in Christ, not to the mature.
You are digressing from the subject.
Tell me, are those who no longer believe the gospel but their good works will get them to heaven, born again or not?
What about those who claim to be born again but propagate, what you might refer to as, "doctrines of devils"? Are they children of God?
What about the Jehovah's Wickednesses, Morons, Charismaniacs, Quackers, and the like?
What about the wolves in sheep's clothing, and the tares AMONG the wheat, the ones in the churches with the true children of God?
And what about Jesus' parable, telling us to cut off and pluck out body parts that OFFEND us?
Have you ever thought about the child of God, who is part of the body of Christ getting cut off from His body?
God will not tell us to do something He won't do.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

1 Cor 2:14 tells us who are not born again and will not go to heaven unless God regenerates them as stated in Eph 2. We can not tell who is born again and who is not. We can guess as to the fruits they display.

 

[know1]

1 Cor 2:14 tells us who are not born again and will not go to heaven unless God regenerates them as stated in Eph 2. We can not tell who is born again and who is not. We can guess as to the fruits they display.

That would include a large percentage of people who see and call themselves Christians, because many fail to see the simple truth in WOF and other doctrines that defy the natural laws and course of nature. Even calling such things, doctrines of devils. Many calling WOF, evil and sickness, of God or good.
Those who are not of the truth of God's word, are incapable of receiving it.
I have seen this demonstrated by many people on CC over the years.