Is unconditional election biblical?
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Your response was critical, so does your indictment apply to you? Nothing is wrong with a critical response, thus your attempt to ridicule has failed.
I've given biblical responses, you've glossed over them.
Therefore it's duly noted you've rejected all biblical argumentation giving God all the glory which were provided you. Not one time have you paused to glory in Him via those texts, yet you've been quick to give self and mankind glory. Not one amen, only reluctance to give Him all glory while fighting for your own.
Ever wonder why?
I've given biblical responses, you've glossed over them.
Therefore it's duly noted you've rejected all biblical argumentation giving God all the glory which were provided you. Not one time have you paused to glory in Him via those texts, yet you've been quick to give self and mankind glory. Not one amen, only reluctance to give Him all glory while fighting for your own.
Ever wonder why?
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and
so in response to first post addressed to me and with regards to second post and the video wherein Flowers is described as a heretic by resident Calvinists here and because I said I would, my response after reading:
here is the question asked by Flowers to preacher4truth
God said, "Let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD."
How do you define boasting as it is used by God in this text?
but really you have to back up the conversation or this is simply an out of context remark like cherry picking once again
Flowers also makes this comment to another poster who argues against him
The Biblicist said: ↑
EXACTLY, and that is true regardless of whether our faith is a free response or a divinely determined one. Do you understand?
As explained in the other thread, this is a false statement, as even those who believe and repent could justly be condemned for sin. It is only by His Grace that those who choose to believe are actually saved. His gracious choice to save the repentant is the determinative factor. Only if you presume God's choice to save the repentant is a given (or is somehow deserved) is this statement true, and that is not what we believe.
and then with regards to the boasting comments...your direct accusation of blasphemy comes from that...he states
P4T, I'm still waiting on your definition of boasting that makes God's words acceptable to you and your system....
Waiting...
I am satisfied he is not saying what you and p4t say. this goes back to 2014.....smh
basically, Flowers was a Calvinist who has left Calvinism and p4t states he was never a Calvinist
he states that because in true Calvinism, a Calvinist would ALWAYS remain within Calvinism
I hope everybody gets what I just said above because it's pretty eye opening
it's the fine print of Calvinsim
I see in the thread that was linked to, the same type of exchange we have right here
I expect to find much the same if I research any other claims of heresy or what have you with regards to what Flowers is saying
I'll let you know if I come across anything I consider heretical
probably don't hold your breath
so in response to first post addressed to me and with regards to second post and the video wherein Flowers is described as a heretic by resident Calvinists here and because I said I would, my response after reading:
here is the question asked by Flowers to preacher4truth
God said, "Let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD."
How do you define boasting as it is used by God in this text?
but really you have to back up the conversation or this is simply an out of context remark like cherry picking once again
Flowers also makes this comment to another poster who argues against him
The Biblicist said: ↑
I understand that Christ's life and death is the SOLE basis of meriting justification before God.
Flowers:EXACTLY, and that is true regardless of whether our faith is a free response or a divinely determined one. Do you understand?
Biblicist:
Thus ultimately the human will is credited with the determinate cause of salvation
Flowers:As explained in the other thread, this is a false statement, as even those who believe and repent could justly be condemned for sin. It is only by His Grace that those who choose to believe are actually saved. His gracious choice to save the repentant is the determinative factor. Only if you presume God's choice to save the repentant is a given (or is somehow deserved) is this statement true, and that is not what we believe.
and then with regards to the boasting comments...your direct accusation of blasphemy comes from that...he states
P4T, I'm still waiting on your definition of boasting that makes God's words acceptable to you and your system....
Waiting...
I am satisfied he is not saying what you and p4t say. this goes back to 2014.....smh
basically, Flowers was a Calvinist who has left Calvinism and p4t states he was never a Calvinist
he states that because in true Calvinism, a Calvinist would ALWAYS remain within Calvinism
I hope everybody gets what I just said above because it's pretty eye opening
it's the fine print of Calvinsim
I see in the thread that was linked to, the same type of exchange we have right here
I expect to find much the same if I research any other claims of heresy or what have you with regards to what Flowers is saying
I'll let you know if I come across anything I consider heretical
probably don't hold your breath
Let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD."
thats a great verse. i love it. i will try to remember it.
calvinism is really falling apart fast. nothing is working. i dont believe a single one of the tulip points.
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This proves nothing other than your attempt to belittle the individual. Not sure what your describing as ridicule and nothing is wrong with a critical response as long as it backed by facts.
You have given your interpretation and I refuted and provided a counter argument also with scripture and interpretation. Do you think I just see your scripture and shield my eyes lol? I read it and corrected your conclusion.
Sorry but the opposing theology does give God all the glory. There is time and season for all things. There is a time of worship and a time to correct false teachings which is a act of glorifying God by defending truth. If you call belief giving mankind all the glory then I am not sure you will understand. If you deny free will then much of reality doesn't make sense and forcing you to reason to the conclusion of a worldview without free will which is really in the end just as silly and embarrassing as it for the atheist who also must deny free will.
You have given your interpretation and I refuted and provided a counter argument also with scripture and interpretation. Do you think I just see your scripture and shield my eyes lol? I read it and corrected your conclusion.
Sorry but the opposing theology does give God all the glory. There is time and season for all things. There is a time of worship and a time to correct false teachings which is a act of glorifying God by defending truth. If you call belief giving mankind all the glory then I am not sure you will understand. If you deny free will then much of reality doesn't make sense and forcing you to reason to the conclusion of a worldview without free will which is really in the end just as silly and embarrassing as it for the atheist who also must deny free will.
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Even our ability to believe is from God my friend. Those who believe have been gifted this ability to believe.
28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”[John 6]
28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”[John 6]
they all went their way, one to their tulip farm........
look at cornelius he was unsaved and still said to be a devout man by God whose prayer was heard.
Acts 10:1-4
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
but totally depraved didnt believe in Jesus yet as is proven later on in next chapter and verses.
but wait, he was 'regenerated' already so thats why he did that? come on man. nobody is born again until they believe the gospel.
truth is that book of acts its transitioning from jews to gentiles mainly and this guy was a gentile who believed in the God of Israel, and then when Jesus came, Lord saw him as devout and therefore st.peter was sent there to preach gospel.
really simple when you rightly divide bible
look at cornelius he was unsaved and still said to be a devout man by God whose prayer was heard.
Acts 10:1-4
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.
but totally depraved didnt believe in Jesus yet as is proven later on in next chapter and verses.
but wait, he was 'regenerated' already so thats why he did that? come on man. nobody is born again until they believe the gospel.
truth is that book of acts its transitioning from jews to gentiles mainly and this guy was a gentile who believed in the God of Israel, and then when Jesus came, Lord saw him as devout and therefore st.peter was sent there to preach gospel.
really simple when you rightly divide bible
John 6:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
The Greek word here for believe is different than the scriptures that refer to faith as a gift. We have pisteuo
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
4102 Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
The Greek word here for believe is different than the scriptures that refer to faith as a gift. We have pisteuo
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (= faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith
Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
4102 Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
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i think easiest point to refute is t or i
i because God's grace is like the most resisted thing in planet.
Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
i because God's grace is like the most resisted thing in planet.
Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
That claim, that God gave us the ability to have faith, is part of the TULIP formula. The "I", that is, Irresistible Grace.
Did God also give us the ability to think?
Joshua 24:15—“Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
Did God also give us the ability to think?
Joshua 24:15—“Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”
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i really enjoy how organized your posts are much more neat than mine. can you please go through all the tulip points proving free will in process? it would be great for us all.
you could save the work you do and use it in future as well
yes i just tried to flatter you into doing it. will you do it please please please?
you could save the work you do and use it in future as well
yes i just tried to flatter you into doing it. will you do it please please please?
free will
[ˌfrē ˈwil]
NOUN
I wouldn't think it a difficult undertaking at all.
Every passage in scripture wherein God or Jesus direct us to choose is evidence that God gave us the capacity to decide for ourselves.
"See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways…then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live…" The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 30 verses 15 through 19
[ˌfrē ˈwil]
NOUN
- the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
synonyms:
volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy ·
[more]
- (especially of a donation) given readily; voluntary.
"free-will offerings"
I wouldn't think it a difficult undertaking at all.
Every passage in scripture wherein God or Jesus direct us to choose is evidence that God gave us the capacity to decide for ourselves.
"See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in his ways…then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed…I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live…" The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 30 verses 15 through 19
U
Whispered you are very funny.... so far the theologians, the philosophers, the neuroscientists, the physicists, the psychologist etc., have been unable to prove or disprove its existence.
Choice and free will are not synonymous, in scripture does the term/concept "free will" occur I think not, because it was developed in classical Greek philosophy.
Choice and free will are not synonymous, in scripture does the term/concept "free will" occur I think not, because it was developed in classical Greek philosophy.