Falling away

[wattie]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

 

[oldhermit]

Yes, I have seen this many times. This is not a new development.

 

[morefaithrequired]

Christianity survives better in poorer countries like the Phillipines. Wealth and consumerism make people think they dont need God.
Suffering and reaching rock bottom sometimes brings them back.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

Hi Warrie, You don't have to worry that your friends are not going to heaven, if they are among those that Christ died for, because he said he would raise them all up at the last day. We, however, should be concerned about them and try to encourage them to return to the assembly because they will die to the fellowship and spiritual nourishment that only comes from assembling and worshiping God with those of like faith.

 

[Lightskin]

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Jesus is the narrow path and nothing about him is getting narrower.

The assault upon Christianity in the Western world is taking affect and it’s all the more reason we need to let our light shine before others and give glory to God in Jesus’s name.

We are in full fledged spiritual warfare. Wear your armour with due diligence.

 

[dcontroversal]

Seems to be the case everywhere......and for sure the truth, churches, making a biblical stand, etc. is being suppressed by evil men, women and governments ubder the banner of hate speech......for example.....In the U.S. you can mouth Christianity all you want and as loud as you want.....but if you stand up and condemn homosexuality as sin.....it is hate speech......or....you can boycott, block, mouth businesses that lean toward Christian principles while the Christian businesses are sued and ordered by left wing Satanic judges to bake cakes for gays.......the world is ripe and on the verge of catastrophy.....and for sure many believers are weakening and the light of Christianity is waning.......Men love darkness and most hate the light....God is going to give humanity a world of darkness under the beast and the light of biblical Christianity will ALMOST be extinguished!

 

[Chester]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me"

Lets all together fight to bring those that wander and struggle into the fold of God. Every one of us needs the prayers and the help of Christian brothers to win the battle for God's Kingdom!

It is the end times! God will win in the end!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hi Warrie, You don't have to worry that your friends are not going to heaven, if they are among those that Christ died for, because he said he would raise them all up at the last day. We, however, should be concerned about them and try to encourage them to return to the assembly because they will die to the fellowship and spiritual nourishment that only comes from assembling and worshiping God with those of like faith.

Sorry Wattie, I hit the wrong key for your name.

 

[garee]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

Makes me wonder when he does come will he find the work of Christ's faith working in them to both will and do His good pleasure. Or will he find his two witness the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) killed taking away the work of the faith of God, the power to believe God not seen . Experience seems to be the new gospel today .No faith needed just experience and believe the things seen

Luke18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

I don't know who Joshua Harris is, but it's likely he was involved in false doctrine and never actually believed.
It could also be that he had some view of doctrine that cause cognitive dissonance with the things he found practical for living life in modern times. Which is often the case.

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

I'm starting to notice a lot of believers .. some I know well.. are turning their backs on God.

I'm guessing its because the Christian path is getting narrower and narrower compared to the worlds philosophies.

Many of the Christians I know were quite strong believers but have gone away from the faith.

A famous believer that's turned his back is Joshua Harris.

Anyway, wondering what you all have seen as well?

Many here will say these falling away never were saved but they did not nor do not see anyone's heart! Anyone can ( BACKSIDE) walk away,fall away from God!Yes He continues to see them and the Holy Spirit continues to convict and try to bring them back to God! Plz let us just PRAY,not be amazed,joyful or anything else except extremely heart broken for these people and the Kingdom of Heaven!

 

[Melach]

Christianity survives better in poorer countries like the Phillipines. Wealth and consumerism make people think they dont need God.
Suffering and reaching rock bottom sometimes brings them back.

i agree this is so true 100%

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Please read this and study this!

Your Word for Today

"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1-3).

The main purpose of the Holy Spirit giving us, through Paul, Chapters 9 through 11 of Romans was not, as stated, for Prophetical analysis, even though that, in measure, was given, but rather to warn the Church. If the Church follows in Israel’s footsteps by being ignorant of God’s Righteousness or by refusing God’s Righteousness, attempting, as Israel, to establish its own righteousness, the Church will be cut off just as Israel was cut off.

Concerning this, Paul said, “For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not you (refers to the Church, as is obvious). Behold, therefore the goodness and severity of God (don’t mistake the Goodness of God for license): on them which fell, severity (speaks of Judgment which came on Israel, God’s chosen People); but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His Goodness (proclaims the conditions; the continuing of that “Goodness” pertains to continued Faith in Christ and the Cross): otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:21-22).

“God’s Righteousness” is that which is afforded by Jesus Christ, gained by and through the Cross. The only way that God’s Righteousness can be given to anyone is by virtue of the Cross, which demands Faith on the part of the recipient. If one attempts to gain righteousness by any other manner, the Lord refers to it as “self-righteousness,” and it is unacceptable — totally unacceptable!

I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”

The Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get it (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

To be sure, the Lord has always dealt with individuals, but now it is only individuals.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

It is the same now as it was with Israel of old.

Paul said, “Even so then at this present time (Paul’s day) also there is a Remnant according to the election of Grace (definitely speaks of Predestination, but not as many think; it is the “Remnant” that is elected or predestined, not who will be in the Remnant).

“And if by Grace (the Goodness of God, all made possible by the Cross), then is it no more of works (no one can point to their works as grounds for Salvation): otherwise Grace is no more Grace (if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace). But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace (works can never produce Grace): otherwise work is no more work” (for example, Water Baptism, if acted upon wrongly, nullifies its true meaning; this also holds true for all other great Ordinances of the Lord) (Rom. 11:5-6).

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

We must not be ignorant of Satan's devices!

Your Word for Today

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).

The manner and way that one can tell if one is truly following Christ, and, by that, we refer to placing one’s Faith in Christ and the Cross, and maintaining his Faith in that manner, is that the “works of the flesh” are no longer in our life. The only way, and we mean the only way, that the Believer is going to be free from the “works of the flesh” is by the method which we have just mentioned: Faith in Christ and the Cross. If one resorts to Law in any measure, to self-effort regarding rules and regulations, etc., such a Believer is going to fail the Lord. The Holy Spirit simply will not help such a Believer. As we have previously stated, the reason the Holy Spirit will not help is that such a person is committing “spiritual adultery,” and the Holy Spirit will have no part of that, as should be obvious.

Let us say it in another way:

There is only one way for victory over “works of the flesh,” and that is by the Power of the Holy Spirit, Who performs His Work exclusively within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. In other words, what the Holy Spirit does in our lives constitutes a legal work. That’s why Paul said, “For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the Law of sin and death” (Rom. 8:2).

As we have also previously stated, victory over the “Law of sin and death,” which characterizes “works of the flesh,” can only be brought about through “the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus,” which is the most powerful Law on the face of the Earth, but yet the only Law that is more powerful than the “Law of sin and death.”

We should look very thoughtfully at this list of “works of the flesh” (Gal. 5:19-21). While all of us might concur to the wickedness of the first four, we very little think of “idolatry,” “witchcraft,” “hatred,” “heresies,” etc.

Please, however, note carefully:

Every single Preacher in the world who is preaching something other than Christ and the Cross is preaching “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Furthermore, anything that we place as a substitute for Christ and the Cross is judged by God as “idolatry.”

Paul tells us here that if we refuse God’s Way, which is the Way of the Cross, which means that these “works of the flesh” are going to run unchecked within our lives, even growing steadily worse, the end result can most definitely be the loss of the soul. So God’s Way of the Cross is not one option among several. It is the only option!”

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please read this and study this!

Your Word for Today

"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s Righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the Righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1-3).

The main purpose of the Holy Spirit giving us, through Paul, Chapters 9 through 11 of Romans was not, as stated, for Prophetical analysis, even though that, in measure, was given, but rather to warn the Church. If the Church follows in Israel’s footsteps by being ignorant of God’s Righteousness or by refusing God’s Righteousness, attempting, as Israel, to establish its own righteousness, the Church will be cut off just as Israel was cut off.

Concerning this, Paul said, “For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not you (refers to the Church, as is obvious). Behold, therefore the goodness and severity of God (don’t mistake the Goodness of God for license): on them which fell, severity (speaks of Judgment which came on Israel, God’s chosen People); but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His Goodness (proclaims the conditions; the continuing of that “Goodness” pertains to continued Faith in Christ and the Cross): otherwise you also shall be cut off” (Rom. 11:21-22).

“God’s Righteousness” is that which is afforded by Jesus Christ, gained by and through the Cross. The only way that God’s Righteousness can be given to anyone is by virtue of the Cross, which demands Faith on the part of the recipient. If one attempts to gain righteousness by any other manner, the Lord refers to it as “self-righteousness,” and it is unacceptable — totally unacceptable!

I ask the following question:

How much is the modern Church preaching the Cross? The answer screams back at us, “Precious little!”

The Church has already apostatized. The Church Age opened with Christ standing in the midst of the candlesticks, in which the candlesticks represent the Church (Rev. 1:12-13). At the close of the Church Age, which pertains to the present time, we no longer find Christ in the midst of the Church, but rather outside, knocking on the door, trying to get it (Rev. 3:17-20). The Lord is, in fact, no longer dealing with the institutionalized Church as a whole, but rather with individuals only.

To be sure, the Lord has always dealt with individuals, but now it is only individuals.

“If any man hear My Voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me” (Rev. 3:20). So, who presently is saved?

It is the same now as it was with Israel of old.

Paul said, “Even so then at this present time (Paul’s day) also there is a Remnant according to the election of Grace (definitely speaks of Predestination, but not as many think; it is the “Remnant” that is elected or predestined, not who will be in the Remnant).

“And if by Grace (the Goodness of God, all made possible by the Cross), then is it no more of works (no one can point to their works as grounds for Salvation): otherwise Grace is no more Grace (if works are mixed with Grace, they nullify Grace). But if it be of works, then is it no more Grace (works can never produce Grace): otherwise work is no more work” (for example, Water Baptism, if acted upon wrongly, nullifies its true meaning; this also holds true for all other great Ordinances of the Lord) (Rom. 11:5-6).

As there was a “Remnant” in Israel who were saved, meaning that most were lost, likewise, there also is a “Remnant” in the modern Church who are saved, but only a Remnant. Israel had rejected much of that which was of the Lord, but when they rejected the Cross, there was nothing left. They were cut off. The modern Church has done the same thing. It has rejected much which is of the Lord, but now it is rejecting the Cross. As with Israel, if the Cross is rejected, that means the Righteousness of God is rejected, and that means the Church is also cut off — except for the “Remnant.”

Are you in the Remnant?

The only way that anyone can be in the Remnant is by accepting Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. There is no other way!"’

—Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart

Rom 10:1-2-3 - Israel in this scripture is Jacob as Israel whose name was changed in Gen 32:28 to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel, who is representative of God's elect. If they had a ZEAL of God they were God's born again of the Spirit children. Saved according to Greek = delivered. (not eternally because they were already delivered eternally) but delivered from their lack of the full knowledge of the gospel.

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

ALL SIN separates from God,no big or little sins. It is our act of repentance upon awareness we have sinned that keeps us before God and under His protection.
Ep.2:8/9 For by GRACE are ye saved through FAITH;and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: Not of works,lest any man should boast.

Toooooo many people only have their own self righteousness, not having put on HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We must not be ignorant of Satan's devices!

Your Word for Today

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God (Gal. 5:19-21).

The manner and way that one can tell if one is truly following Christ, and, by that, we refer to placing one’s Faith in Christ and the Cross, and maintaining his Faith in that manner, is that the “works of the flesh” are no longer in our life. The only way, and we mean the only way, that the Believer is going to be free from the “works of the flesh” is by the method which we have just mentioned: Faith in Christ and the Cross. If one resorts to Law in any measure, to self-effort regarding rules and regulations, etc., such a Believer is going to fail the Lord. The Holy Spirit simply will not help such a Believer. As we have previously stated, the reason the Holy Spirit will not help is that such a person is committing “spiritual adultery,” and the Holy Spirit will have no part of that, as should be obvious.

Let us say it in another way:

There is only one way for victory over “works of the flesh,” and that is by the Power of the Holy Spirit, Who performs His Work exclusively within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ. In other words, what the Holy Spirit does in our lives constitutes a legal work. That’s why Paul said, “For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the Law of sin and death” (Rom. 8:2).

As we have also previously stated, victory over the “Law of sin and death,” which characterizes “works of the flesh,” can only be brought about through “the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus,” which is the most powerful Law on the face of the Earth, but yet the only Law that is more powerful than the “Law of sin and death.”

We should look very thoughtfully at this list of “works of the flesh” (Gal. 5:19-21). While all of us might concur to the wickedness of the first four, we very little think of “idolatry,” “witchcraft,” “hatred,” “heresies,” etc.

Please, however, note carefully:

Every single Preacher in the world who is preaching something other than Christ and the Cross is preaching “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Furthermore, anything that we place as a substitute for Christ and the Cross is judged by God as “idolatry.”

Paul tells us here that if we refuse God’s Way, which is the Way of the Cross, which means that these “works of the flesh” are going to run unchecked within our lives, even growing steadily worse, the end result can most definitely be the loss of the soul. So God’s Way of the Cross is not one option among several. It is the only option!”

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)
Donnie Swaggart

There is a remnant in the church that have been taught and understand the fullness of the gospel and understand that they have the imputed righteousness of Christ and are not going about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works, such as most on this forum are doing, also including Donnie Swaggart. That is why in Eze it talks of a "wheel within a wheel" The outer wheel being those of God's elect who do not have the full knowledge of the gospel and are going about trying to establish their own righteousness and the inner wheel being the remnant of God's elect who understand the fullness of the gospel. The 'way of the cross" as you put it, is not a way to be chosen. Christ finished the will of God upon the cross and all that he died for will live in heaven with him. In your interpretation of the scriptures. you are making man to be his own idol by his refusal or acceptance of, as you put it, "the way of the cross".

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Toooooo many people only have their own self righteousness, not having put on HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!

Philippians 3:17-21 King James Version (KJV)

ENEMIES OF THE CROSS DOCTRINE

17 Brethren, be followers together of me (be "Fellow-imitators"), and mark them which walk so as you have us for an ensample (observe intently).

18 (For many walk (speaks of those attempting to live for God outside of the victory and rudiments of the Cross of Christ), of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping (this is a most serious matter), that they are the enemies of the Cross of Christ (those who do not look exclusively to the Cross of Christ must be labeled "enemies"):

19 Whose end is destruction (if the Cross is ignored, and continues to be ignored, the loss of the soul is the only ultimate conclusion), whose God is their belly (refers to those who attempt to pervert the Gospel for their own personal gain), and whose glory is in their shame (the material things they seek, God labels as "shame"), who mind earthly things.) (This means they have no interest in Heavenly things, which signifies they are using the Lord for their own personal gain.)

20 For our conversation (citizenship) is in Heaven (meaning the other ways will have no place in Heaven); from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ (the Rapture):

21 Who (the Lord) shall change our vile body (the Resurrection), that it may be fashioned like unto his Glorious body (every Saint will have a Glorified Body), according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. ("All things" are done through the Cross.)

JSM

All things" are done through the Cross. If you leave the Cross, you enter death (Romans 8:1-2, 6, 13)

 

[IFOLLOWHIM]

Woooooo Hooooooo I'm so thankful I DON'T get to judge! It is going to be a shame for ALL the puffed up,hot air blowers when the prostitute, the murders,the homosexuals that have repented get into the inheritance before they do!

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Rom 10:1-2-3 - Israel in this scripture is Jacob as Israel whose name was changed in Gen 32:28 to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel, who is representative of God's elect. If they had a ZEAL of God they were God's born again of the Spirit children. Saved according to Greek = delivered. (not eternally because they were already delivered eternally) but delivered from their lack of the full knowledge of the gospel.

The truth is none of the Old Testament Saints including His Disciples were born-again. They were saved, but not born-again because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins (Hebrews 10:4). This is why they could not go to Heaven, but Paradise when they died. During that time the Holy Spirit could only dwell with them (some) and not in them because the Lamp of God who takes away the sin of the world had not went to the Cross (John 14:17). After the Lamp of God atone for all sin, this allowed the Holy Spirit to live in in the Believer because now they are born-again.