What's middle class where you live?

[calibob]

When I hear politicians talking about helping the middle class, I assume they are talking about average people who usually punch a time clock, work 40 hrs. a week. Don't drive a new car every year or two and most send their kids to public schools, pay taxes … etc.

I realize there are professionals in the middle class like nurses, plumbers, welders and mechanics and others with education and certification in their professions that get paid either by the job or are on some kind of a small salary + commission. and low or mid level sales people.

 

[calibob]

May I apologize for forgetting long haul truck drivers with their own trucks and commercial fishermen with multi million dollar boats as well.

 

[Lanolin]

Middle class people dont usually punch time clocks. Thats working class. 40 hour weeks were won by the trade unions to stop exploitation.

When politicians talk about middle class its generally those people who arent working in manual labour or unskilled jobs. Employers rather than employees.

If you unsure how to define things I always go to look it up in dictionary which will give you an idea.

Middle class -the social group made up of business or professional people, between the upper and working classes.

 

[calibob]

Middle class people dont usually punch time clocks. Thats working class. 40 hour weeks were won by the trade unions to stop exploitation.

When politicians talk about middle class its generally those people who arent working in manual labour or unskilled jobs. Employers rather than employees.

If you unsure how to define things I always go to look it up in dictionary which will give you an idea.

Middle class -the social group made up of business or professional people, between the upper and working classes.

I always considered union workers middle class and salaried supervisors upper class and above them like doctors and lawyers are rich. I think of middle class as average people earning average pay. Middle class people can't afford to belong to county clubs. That's whey I get so angry when politicians say the are in favor of the middle class but do little or nothing to help the average working man or woman. There are the poor who are on welfare or work for near minimum wage the middle or average the upper class and the rich that may make 1/2 a million dollars a year or more.

 

[calibob]

Sorry if you missunderstood the question. The question is wasan't middle class nationally but where you live. My baseline is the average gross income per household. I should have added before taxes or deductions. Statewide in Oklahoma is $61k but in my zip code it's more like $47.500 for a family of four. The oil companies are rich and the workers are well paid but few so that why such a difference between the state and local averages. There are no large oil fields around here.

 

[calibob]

Middle class income

Image: aol.com
The Pew Research Center defines the US middle class as those earning two-thirds to twice the median household income, which was $60,336 in 2017, meaning middle-class Americans were earning about $40,425 to $120,672. Nov 14 2018

 

[Lanolin]

I would class doctors and lawyers as middle class. Upper class would be above them like aristocrats or heirs and heiresses of those who made an absolute fortune.
Where I life is a working class area mostly. Most people are renting in my neighbourhood or their homes were the first they bought and stayed in. Its not like their second or third home. The super rich upper classes usually have more than one residence. They would have a family home, a summer residence, an apartment in town and maybe even overseas investments. They would also haveincome from renting out properties, and often could be just flipping them earning money while they are sleeping. What they so is get an investment banker to look after all their shares. They may own several businesses.

Yes the rich are different. They have more money to play with.

 

[calibob]

I would class doctors and lawyers as middle class. Upper class would be above them like aristocrats or heirs and heiresses of those who made an absolute fortune.
Where I life is a working class area mostly. Most people are renting in my neighbourhood or their homes were the first they bought and stayed in. Its not like their second or third home. The super rich upper classes usually have more than one residence. They would have a family home, a summer residence, an apartment in town and maybe even overseas investments. They would also haveincome from renting out properties, and often could be just flipping them earning money while they are sleeping. What they so is get an investment banker to look after all their shares.

Yes the rich are different. They have more money to play with.

See post #26

 

[calibob]

OK. I'll shut up. I didn't realize you are from NZ. My father would have been 105 this month and my mother would have been 100 Nov 8. A lot of my attitude I learned from their experiences working through the great depression and working very hard all of their lives. Dad worked in a fish cannery and operated and repaired boilers. They paid of their mortgage and owned their home and a new car outright at 65 and never bought another of either.

 

[calibob]

Auto mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and welders etc are NOT unskilled and in most states need to be continually re-educated and re-certified.

 

[Heyjude]

Thank you very, very much. It's the best, most logical and to the point answer of all so far. Whos next?

I would class doctors and lawyers as middle class. Upper class would be above them like aristocrats or heirs and heiresses of those who made an absolute fortune.
Where I life is a working class area mostly. Most people are renting in my neighbourhood or their homes were the first they bought and stayed in. Its not like their second or third home. The super rich upper classes usually have more than one residence. They would have a family home, a summer residence, an apartment in town and maybe even overseas investments. They would also haveincome from renting out properties, and often could be just flipping them earning money while they are sleeping. What they so is get an investment banker to look after all their shares. They may own several businesses.

Yes the rich are different. They have more money to play with.

I think it depends on which part of the world you live - for instance, a working class person who won the lottery and then drove flash cars and lived in a stately home would never be called "upper class" in England. By themselves maybe but they wouldn't be regarded as that in the UK as it has a social and cultural badge here and not down to how much you earn.

 

[calibob]

I think it depends on which part of the world you live - for instance, a working class person who won the lottery and then drove flash cars and lived in a stately home would never be called "upper class" in England. By themselves maybe but they wouldn't be regarded as that in the UK as it has a social and cultural badge here and not down to how much you earn.

Oh yeah. I understand that. Many that are considered Upper middleclass are barely more than working poor here. Due to credit card addiction, unstable interest and mortgage rates. many are less then 6 mos from bankruptcy if things go sour. There is very little inherited wealth or real estate in the USA. The banks own almost everything now.

I trust banks about as much as casinos. But the banks are reinforced by taxpayers and actually lose very little when the foreclose on a mortgage. As they keep the property while so many lose their homes... But the taxpayers are still payimg to keep the banks afloat.., 11 years ago.. What a scam!

 

[Lanolin]

Auto mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and welders etc are NOT unskilled and in most states need to be continually re-educated and re-certified.

Nobody said they were unskilled they are tradies which is a bit different to merchants. They own their own businesses. But they wouldnt be the same type of middle class as say, yuppies who are generally university educated which requires more than a trade certificate and is not doing much manual labour.

For sure it depends on where you live and what country you are from but where I am from we dont have much class distinctions s as britain does. And we dont set a store on how much people earn. If you can live within your means then thats great. If you cant, well woe to you. Count your blessing that you are above the poverty line, you are gainfully employed and theres no depression.

Theres nothing wrong with being working class. But you cant confuse that with being middle class and then claim politicans arent catering to you or helping you. You will then end up voting for the wrong representatives who wont share your concerns or interests.

 

[Miri]

I’m not really sure there is much difference between the lower and middle class
over here in the UK, the lines are very blurred.

Most people have a mobile phone, TV, some sort of car, a roof over their head.
Clothing is cheap. Fee access to medical services via the NHS.

For both sets of people energy prices and housing rental and costs to buy are way are
way too high. Unemployed claim benefits but so do working people and families.

We have a Harvey Nichols store in my city. Very expensive definitely for the upper crust.
But their make up, perfume counters are the same as everywhere else’s and at times they
are cheaper than the regular stores. So all classes of people go their.

Plus we have some shops that buy up unsold stock from all other shops and sell it at big
discounts. For example I’ve seen stuff in Harvey Nicholas sold at massive discounts in
these shops. So rich and poor alike walk around in named designer gear.

The worst off are usually single parents who can’t get the full time jobs and unemployed.
Who end up reliant on food banks who can barely make their money last the month.
I wouldn’t consider them lower class though, they are just people going through hard times.

Does class even exist any more? We don’t live in Victorian days any more.

In any case money does not bring happiness. Look at all the celebs who end up in
rehab, on drugs, drink,

Class really does not matter any more.

 

[calibob]

A. The only class distinction that I care about is economical. A baker is in the same league as a banker in my book socially. It matters less about social status and more about how kind people are to others.

B. The wealthy are not supposed to have more influence political influence than ditch diggers.

C. Having worked at non profit organizations at or near minimum wage -10% for tithe. and being 100% disabled and over 65 I am retired and legally at US poverty level.

D. God is no respecter of persons.

E. I think taxes should favor the working class for very good reasons.

1. The working class spend over 90% of what they receive almost as fast as they get it and do not hoard money.

2. The money they spend goes directly back into the economy.

3. It would reduce the envy of the common while encouraging the rich to contribute to the wellbeing of the average and reduce their tax burdens at the same time.

 

[calibob]

I’m not really sure there is much difference between the lower and middle class
over here in the UK, the lines are very blurred.

Most people have a mobile phone, TV, some sort of car, a roof over their head.
Clothing is cheap. Fee access to medical services via the NHS.

For both sets of people energy prices and housing rental and costs to buy are way are
way too high. Unemployed claim benefits but so do working people and families.

We have a Harvey Nichols store in my city. Very expensive definitely for the upper crust.
But their make up, perfume counters are the same as everywhere else’s and at times they
are cheaper than the regular stores. So all classes of people go their.

Plus we have some shops that buy up unsold stock from all other shops and sell it at big
discounts. For example I’ve seen stuff in Harvey Nicholas sold at massive discounts in
these shops. So rich and poor alike walk around in named designer gear.

The worst off are usually single parents who can’t get the full time jobs and unemployed.
Who end up reliant on food banks who can barely make their money last the month.
I wouldn’t consider them lower class though, they are just people going through hard times.

Does class even exist any more? We don’t live in Victorian days any more.

In any case money does not bring happiness. Look at all the celebs who end up in
rehab, on drugs, drink,

Class really does not matter any more.

I'm glad you have a logical, workable healthcare system Here it goes state by state and varies widely. I have cataracts and need dental surgery and no money or insurance for either. I could get both in California, but I can't afford to live there.

 

[calibob]

It should be obvious by now that we are on two different pages. I was talking about economic class while others are talking about social class to me a longshoreman that earns say $75k a year is the same class as a bank teller or insurance salesperson that earns the same income. How can we fairly tax the majority, help the minority and be fair to the upper class? Is there a logical way?

 

[Lanolin]

You cant meaningfully classify people by economic class because in the US people can earn however much they want to earn by hard work its not actually reliant on what they already have, where they were born etc. also it fluctuates depending on what kind of job they do whether they are working or not.

Am not sure why you trying to do this...its not really good to pigeonhole people by how much they earn. Unless you are a tax collector, then its not really your business to know.

People need to give however much God places on their hearts to give. In OT times it was just ten percent of your produce. Easy to calculate. Todays tax rates are much more complicated to calculate. For example GST is dependeant on someone earning more than $60,000 a year profits. And people need to forecast how much they are going to earn (not an exact science) . It used to be 12.5 percent now its 15. GST is slapped on any goods and services you buy.

Its why nz doesnt have tipping.

Then the tax rates are 10.5 percent of your income and after that a certain level up to 33 percent. And there are other taxes too up to 45 percent, as well as PAYE!

 

[Lanolin]

I think there may be a logical way but the logical way may not be Gods way. Ask him for wisdom, rather than rob Peter to pay Paul.

 

[calibob]

Middle class has always been what US politicians called the middle income tax bracket. We were taught in my school that the tiered tax system is what makes the US democratic republic system, superior to every other system in the history of the world so far.., but I graduated in 1972. Before Reaganomics. People shouldn't wonder why liberalism is gaining traction. It's the back lash from the system that dosn't appear to help the working people and down trodden as much or more than the rich. It's the new conservative model of trying to equalize the tax burdens between the haves and the have nots that is causing the have nots to gravitate socialism.

The trouble is that those who lack moral integrity are jumping on the same band wagon and the economically liberal so the morally conservatives doing the same thing with the economic conservatives. The term God helps those who helps themselves is NOT IN THE BIBLE! Its from a Greek fable. That means; fiction or lie.

God Helps those who Helps Themselves Bible Verse The old saying “God helps those who helps themselves” while many believe comes from a reference in the Bible actually comes from an old Greek fable called “Hercules and the Wagoneer” written by Aesop. (co christianbiblelife.com)

It seems to me that the moral conservatives should be in favor of helping the economically disadvantaged. It's the Christian thing to. I'm not speaking on my own behalf. I made my bed long ago I accept my situation. But working parents and their children need help all over. Financially, medically and educationally. I don't think that the standards set by Peter and Paul are Socialism. Or at least not in the new context, in which it has become a dirty word.