Is God A Moral Monster?

[Melach]

No the god of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament. Saul/Paul is a witness to that.

proof?
you try to say that because God commands to take out certain people it violates the commandment not to kill but its not true

just like today you cant go out and take someone's life its an evil crime, but if you are in war sent by the army, its not a crime.
the commandments were a covenant and given to israel, not to edomites, the commandment involved israelites, not edomites or amalakites or those. so God can easily say okay, these people have sinned enough now ive had it go and take your land. as He did in o.t. no problem there, no contradiction.

 

[Melach]

Blimey! I was beginning to feel very alone on this thread.....and here you come, not defending a monster God. Very Marcionite by the way.

are you a marcionite? has God ever spoken to you audibly, how does God speak to you in that living relationship you speak of what did He say?

 

[Dibby53]

proof?
you try to say that because God commands to take out certain people it violates the commandment not to kill but its not true

just like today you cant go out and take someone's life its an evil crime, but if you are in war sent by the army, its not a crime.
the commandments were a covenant and given to israel, not to edomites, the commandment involved israelites, not edomites or amalakites or those. so God can easily say okay, these people have sinned enough now ive had it go and take your land. as He did in o.t. no problem there, no contradiction.

In a war situation if soldiers deliberately target non-combatants and innocents they are guilty of murder and war crimes.

 

[Dibby53]

are you a marcionite? has God ever spoken to you audibly, how does God speak to you in that living relationship you speak of what did He say?

No. I,m not a Marcionite. ( They no longer exist as a group). Although Marcion sounds like someone I would like to have had a discussion with. No, I haven't heard God speak audibly. I can experience his love and then I know for myself what God is like. It is a leading to more kindness and love. If I read something quietly then I may get a leading. For instance, when I read the genocide passages I don't think "oh wonderful, how uplifting". I feel revolted. My own experience of God's love causes me to reject that as anything holy or good.

 

[PS]

@PS yes i believe it was Jesus the I AM who told them to do that.

who do you think it was? if the Bible says it was God, and you say its someone else, why should i believe u, what evidence do you have for your claim that it was someone else? how do u decide when its the real God when its someone else in o.t? please get back to me when you return

It says Lord, not God. The Lord sat on the Ark of the Covenant in judgement, the Lord accepted money, I think it was the top religious leader of the Sanhedran. Just my opinion.

 

[Dino246]

I did not mean to give that impression and have frequently said the I AM guided them, kept them supplied with food (manor from heaven) saw them safely out of Egypt, and was always there for them. That being the case what G/god were they following when all the violence took place? Remember, the God of the Israilites was the god of war.

Which "god" spoke to Abraham in Genesis 15:16?

"In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

Which "god" spoke to Moses in Deuteronomy 20:17?

"Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."

Which "god" spoke to Joshua in Joshua 3:10?

"This is how you will know that the living God is among you and that he will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites."

Which "god" was spoken of in Joshua 10:12?

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

If you don't consider the broader context, you might miss the fact that there is only one God speaking to Israel the whole time.

 

[Dino246]

No. I,m not a Marcionite. ( They no longer exist as a group). Although Marcion sounds like someone I would like to have had a discussion with. No, I haven't heard God speak audibly. I can experience his love and then I know for myself what God is like. It is a leading to more kindness and love. If I read something quietly then I may get a leading. For instance, when I read the genocide passages I don't think "oh wonderful, how uplifting". I feel revolted. My own experience of God's love causes me to reject that as anything holy or good.

The revulsion you feel toward "genocide" is tame compared to the revulsion that God feels toward sin.

 

[PS]

Which "god" spoke to Abraham in Genesis 15:16?

"In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

Which "god" spoke to Moses in Deuteronomy 20:17?

"Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."

Which "god" spoke to Joshua in Joshua 3:10?

"This is how you will know that the living God is among you and that he will certainly drive out before you the Canaanites, Hittites, Hivites, Perizzites, Girgashites, Amorites and Jebusites."

Which "god" was spoken of in Joshua 10:12?

"On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel: “Sun, stand still over Gibeon, and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.”

If you don't consider the broader context, you might miss the fact that there is only one God speaking to Israel the whole time.

We know there is only 1 true God, but there are lots of false gods, and the Jews worshipped some of them. I cannot and do not believe the massacre was at the command of the true God who said not to murder.

 

[calibob]

Mass murder.

The Isrealites faild to do what the were told when they let any Canaanites life. That mistake is still making them suffer. every body from the river Jordan to the Mediterranean and everybody from Syria to the Nile was supposed to be slaughtered. If they had done their jobs The Philistines and almost all of the battles that David, Israel and Judah fought against would never have happened.

 

[Dibby53]

The revulsion you feel toward "genocide" is tame compared to the revulsion that God feels toward sin.

Yes. Sin keeps us from God. Murder is a great sin.
" Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called the sons of God"

 

[calibob]

No. I,m not a Marcionite. ( They no longer exist as a group). Although Marcion sounds like someone I would like to have had a discussion with. No, I haven't heard God speak audibly. I can experience his love and then I know for myself what God is like. It is a leading to more kindness and love. If I read something quietly then I may get a leading. For instance, when I read the genocide passages I don't think "oh wonderful, how uplifting". I feel revolted. My own experience of God's love causes me to reject that as anything holy or good.

Then you missed the whole point. Cause and effect the Israelites failed to obey and it caused them to suffer.

 

[calibob]

Yes. Sin keeps us from God. Murder is a great sin.
" Blessed are the peacemakers. For they shall be called the sons of God"

It isn't murder if God ordered it.

 

[PS]

The Isrealites faild to do what the were told when they let any Canaanites life. That mistake is still making them suffer. every body from the river Jordan to the Mediterranean and everybody from Syria to the Nile was supposed to be slaughtered. If they had done their jobs The Philistines and almost all of the battles that David, Israel and Judah fought against would never have happened.

God has fire, flood, earthquakes and pestilence at his command. Neither would God, in my opinion, command His chosen people to break His Holy Law.

 

[PS]

It isn't murder if God ordered it.

Would the miracle working pre-incarnate Jesus want his people to do that?

This is more like the work of the devil.

 

[Dibby53]

It isn't murder if God ordered it.

If I hear a voice telling me to wipe out people then I am put in a psychiatric unit. Not considered holy. Why do you accept it in an ancient priest?

 

[Melach]

This is the question. What does God the Father who is spirit want with gold, jewels and other earthly riches that rust and rot away. Furthermore, how will giving money to the I AM save their souls. Can we buy salvation? Or is this an earthly Lord like we have in the Houses of Parliament?

Num 31:48-54 KJV
(48) And the officers which were over thousands of the host, the captains of thousands, and captains of hundreds, came near unto Moses:
(49) And they said unto Moses, Thy servants have taken the sum of the men of war which are under our charge, and there lacketh not one man of us.
(50) We have therefore brought an oblation for the LORD, what every man hath gotten, of jewels of gold, chains, and bracelets, rings, earrings, and tablets, to make an atonement for our souls before the LORD.
(51) And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of them, even all wrought jewels.
(52) And all the gold of the offering that they offered up to the LORD, of the captains of thousands, and of the captains of hundreds, was sixteen thousand seven hundred and fifty shekels.
(53) (For the men of war had taken spoil, every man for himself.)
(54) And Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold of the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it into the tabernacle of the congregation, for a memorial for the children of Israel before the LORD.

this verses dont look right to me. why does God want gold chains bracelents and rings earrings? sounds like something rapper wants

 

[PS]

this verses dont look right to me. why does God want gold chains bracelents and rings earrings? sounds like something rapper wants

I agree.

 

[calibob]

If I hear a voice telling me to wipe out people then I am put in a psychiatric unit. Not considered holy. Why do you accept it in an ancient priest?

If you don't believe in the word of God or the God is sovereign or that he is the potter and we are the clay and he is free to do as he sees fit and we don't. Then we have nothing to talk about.

the potter.jpg

• calibob
• Jan 21, 2019

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[calibob]

Would the miracle working pre-incarnate Jesus want his people to do that?

This is more like the work of the devil.

Then the Bible would be a lie. If I believed that I would kill myself. There would be no reason to suffer through life.

 

[Melach]

For instance, when I read the genocide passages I don't think "oh wonderful, how uplifting". I feel revolted. .

you are a soft guy then.

i read it and think "nice. got em good". just like today if i hear that evil people perish, im not sad at all. one less annoyance on the planet. thank God. they had their chance to be saved like everyone.