WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

[Guojing]

Why would any be needed?

Depends on how important you regard Paul as the apostle to the gentiles

 

[Guojing]

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They a had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection."

The resurrection listed above, is in reference to the great tribulation saints only. It does not include the church, which will have been resurrected several years prior. If you apply the resurrection above to include the church, which takes place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, it would mean that the church would be going through the entire wrath of God, which scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked and that is what you would have Him doing if you include the church in the resurrection above.

In addition, the fact that scripture states that they will have died because of their testimony about Jesus and the word of God. And because they will have not worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark, that it is speaking about those great tribulation saints who will be on the earth during the beasts reign and is not referring to the church.


The 1st resurrection, is made up of every resurrection which takes place prior to and after the Lord returns to the earth. The word "First" resurrection, does not mean only resurrection. It just so happens that the phrase is used to describe the great tribulation saints being resurrected as being part of the first resurrection. The church is next as part of the first resurrection, which is imminent. The two witnesses will be resurrected and caught up to heaven in the middle of the seven years. And the male child, which is a collective name for the 144,000, will be caught up to God and His throne, which also takes place in the middle of the seven. After Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, then the great tribulation saints are resurrected. All of these fall under the banner of the first resurrection.



The above is the promise to the church, which will take place prior to the emergence of the beast and his mark. Those who do not take his mark will be the great tribulation saints, not the church. If you'll notice, the word church is never used again after the end of chapter 3. The word changes to "Saints" which is referring to those saints who come out of the great tribulation.

After the church has been gathered, there will be countless numbers who will become believers during the time of God's wrath referred to as those saints who come out of the great tribulation. This is not the church.



The above all happens prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath.



I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the "Last trumpet" and the "7th Trumpet" have nothing to do with each other:

Last Trumpet = The last of a type of trumpet which signals the gathering of the church

Seventh angel/Seventh Trumpet = The last trumpet of seven trumpet judgments.

Nowhere in the context does it state that Jesus descends at the 7th trumpet! You are simply inserting that into the context.



Once again, the above takes place for the church only. And you are correct in that, from that point forward the church will be in their immortal and glorified bodies. However, the rest of the earths population which will include those who come to Christ after the gathering of the church, the wicked, Israel and the 144, 000, will all still be in their mortal bodies. The great tribulation saints will be exposed to all of God's wrath and they are the ones who John sees resurrecting in Rev.20:4-6



The scripture that you are quoting above, is just describing when the Lord descends to gather the church, which will take place prior to God's wrath. It is not stating that this event takes place when the Lord returns to the earth. The church will never see the antichrist, nor his mark, but will be removed prior to the first seal being opened.



I quote the above scripture often. But that event happens before God's wrath begins. Do you see the first part of the first verse? It says, Let not your hear be troubled." If the church was to first go through God's wrath, then we would have reason to be troubled. But because Jesus is going to gather His church prior to His wrath, then we have no reason to be troubled.



Your error is the same as many. You interpret the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth as being the same event, which they are not, but are two separate events.

When the Lord appears to gather His church, he does not return to the earth, but calls us up and meets us in the air and then returns to the Fathers house with His bride/church. At that time is when believers will be judged at the Bema Seat to receive reward or loss of reward. It is also during this time that we will attend the wedding of the Lamb, in heaven.

In opposition, at the end of the seven years, the Lord will descend from heaven, with us following behind Him on white horses (Rev.19:14) and He will return to the earth to end the age and establish His kingdom. The gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth are at least seven years apart.

"While people (unbelievers) are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief.

Your error is that you have the believers in Christ being destroyed right along with the unbelievers. Because the unbelievers are in the darkness, they will be destroyed. But we belong to the light and that day will not overtake us. The meaning is that we will not be here during time of darkness, because we will have been removed, because we belong to the light. "But you brother, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief."

Your version has the church suffering the same wrath that the wicked will suffer. Understand this, the wrath of God that is coming, is not the same as common trials and tribulation that Jesus said we would have, but is the direct wrath of God, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. And scripture says that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, ergo, we can't be here for it.

If believers are to suffer through God's coming wrath, then the wrath that Jesus took upon Himself on behalf of every believer would have meant nothing. When we believed we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God through faith. But you have us being punished right along with the wicked.

Has sackcloth abandoned this thread already? He was most keen on establishing no pre tribulation rapture

 

[stillness]

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
It is vividly depicted in mat 25.
Jesus is the groom,the 5 wise,half of the 10,are taken to the marrige chamber .
We see intimacy depicted between Jesus and his bride.

Now,not that dynamic in relationship with "tribulation"
The tribulation of that story is after the gathering.
Same with noah and lot (2 other examples of Jesus)

"Your time is always ready."

 

[Absolutely]

"Your time is always ready."

Yes
The call to heaven for Jesus to come for the bride automatically suggests she is ready. Ready to leave.

Some suggest noah stayed.

Noah probably told everybody "we're getting out of here.
And sure enough,he rose miles above the earth via the ark.
The "ark" is a type of heaven.

What a vivid picture of the rapture.
Preflood...prewrath...buying and selling immediately before...returning AFTER the flood/wrath/tribulation/judgement.

 

[Absolutely]

Please explain 2nd Thessalonians. And please give me Scripture, just one single one where we are told "Jesus will come back before Satan. I have shown you were we are told with clear, concise words "by the coming of the Lord of us Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him," followed by " for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" .

The WORD OF GOD says " our gathering together unto Him shall not come except that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

But YOU say, "our gathering together unto Him WILL happen BEFORE Satans Tribulation"

If Paul knew or taught there was a "gathering" before Satan, why would he have been so specific as to "our gathering".

So please, explain where I CAN FIND IT IN THE BIBLE where it states, anything to the effect of "we gather to the Lord BEFORE Satan comes". Doesn't it strike you as strange, that there is not one verse for such a BIG HUGE CHRISTIAN EVENT? Doesn't it seem IMPOSSIBLE that the Word of God would cover what we should do if we find a neighbors animal, but you can't come up with a single emphatic verse for "pre trib rap"? How about the writing of the exact opposite of your "claimed" event?

Next, your statement - Then the Lord shall appear in the sky like a sunrise and up,up,up goes the bride!!!

Do you know God specifically is against those who teach His children to fly? Here He goes again, making an emphatic statement against what you refer to as up, up, up and me being left behind. (Its like He knows)

Ezekiel 13:17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart and prophesy thou against them,

Ezekiel 13:18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?

Ezekiel 13:19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Ezekiel 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life

Ezekiel 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


And your last statement

The foolish that invested falsely will cry to the throne..the foolish virgins of mat 25.

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

Matthew 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Matthew 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
1637 elaion
olive oil, oil
Cognate - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to some else. Each person must seek and find the Lord for them self.

5547 Christos
the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ
from 5548 "anoint with olive oil"


Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.
What time is it? MIDNIGHT. It is dark. Who makes things dark? Who is of the night? So it is already dark when Jesus comes. Remember what happens because of His Brightness when He comes?

Matthew 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil for our lamps are gone out.
They are missing some gospel armor. But the wise can not give anything to them. The foolish should have gone and seeked out GODS TRUTH and left the theories or doctrines of man, that make void the word of God alone

Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so lest there be not enough for us and you but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
The foolish now have to go out into the DARKNESS of Night, TO THE SELLER. That is another way of saying "Mark of the beast"

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.
So they weren't raptured away at all. The only thing that PRE Trib did was deceive them into thinking they didn't need "ALL" the Word of God. They were going to be "out of here". "Flown away to safety".

So they quit "seeking" to put on the full gospel armor. And then found themselves in the dead of night, no oil or gospel armor to know what to do. They are not going to fair well. If they are teaching it on top of it, well, you know we are the first to be judged. I am 100% positive.
Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But that was the last night of Satans Tribulation. They went and participated in Satans world. They have committed idolatry. They are no longer virgins. They are with child and giving suck. It is one day to late. They were presented with Gods Truth and they denied it. They are the first one taken. Taken in by deception.

There is no need for us to comment or reply to each others posts past this, if you remain firm in your beliefs, as I in mine. You know what the bible says when we get to this point in a discussion. Back to the Study for me....[/QUOTE]

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Matthew 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

Matthew 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Matthew 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
1637 elaion
olive oil, oil
Cognate - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to some else. Each person must seek and find the Lord for them self.

5547 Christos
the Anointed One, Messiah, Christ
from 5548 "anoint with olive oil"


Matthew 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.
What time is it? MIDNIGHT. It is dark. Who makes things dark? Who is of the night? So it is already dark when Jesus comes. Remember what happens because of His Brightness when He comes?

Matthew 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Matthew 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil for our lamps are gone out.
They are missing some gospel armor. But the wise can not give anything to them. The foolish should have gone and seeked out GODS TRUTH and left the theories or doctrines of man, that make void the word of God alone

Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so lest there be not enough for us and you but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
The foolish now have to go out into the DARKNESS of Night, TO THE SELLER. That is another way of saying "Mark of the beast"

Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.
So they weren't raptured away at all. The only thing that PRE Trib did was deceive them into thinking they didn't need "ALL" the Word of God. They were going to be "out of here". "Flown away to safety".

So they quit "seeking" to put on the full gospel armor. And then found themselves in the dead of night, no oil or gospel armor to know what to do. They are not going to fair well. If they are teaching it on top of it, well, you know we are the first to be judged. I am 100% positive.
Matthew 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

But that was the last night of Satans Tribulation. They went and participated in Satans world. They have committed idolatry. They are no longer virgins. They are with child and giving suck. It is one day to late. They were presented with Gods Truth and they denied it. They are the first one taken. Taken in by deception.

There is no need for us to comment or reply to each others posts past this, if you remain firm in your beliefs, as I in mine. You know what the bible says when we get to this point in a discussion. Back to the Study for me....

It says revealed.
Did you bother to look at my post?
You went off on a tangent when i agreed with the ac being revealed first.
You must not have seen that or something.

But anyway rev 14(if you would read it...which you won't) tells you post trib rapture is impossible.
Totally,decisively impossible.

Your theory is officially debunked.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE BY deighann;
"Cognate - the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. While all true believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, none can give their oil to some else. Each person must seek and find the Lord for them self."


Nope,in acts they recieved the Holy Spirit through laying on of hands.

You changed the dynamics of the parable as postribs ALWAYS do.

 

[Absolutely]

BTW,Even the wise virgins refute your claim
"No,lest we not have enogh for ourselves"
That proves it was normal to share oil.
The anointing is recieved 2 separate ways,as scripture declares.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so lest there be not enough for us and you but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
The foolish now have to go out into the DARKNESS of Night, TO THE SELLER. That is another way of saying "Mark of the beast"""


You just depicted by the foolish staying for the gt,and the wise leaving with the groom.....the pretrib rapture of the wise.
Too funny

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.
What time is it? MIDNIGHT. It is dark. Who makes things dark? Who is of the night? So it is already dark when Jesus comes. Remember what happens because of His Brightness when He comes?"

"MIDNIGHT" has zero to do with either view. It works for both sides of the debate.

You seem to not be aware that there is no buying and selling in the gt without the mark.
So you are needing EVIDENCE the
10 virgins are IN THE GT!
There is zero evidence. Nothing.
That parable ONLY FITS pretrib rapture.
(Pssst....you have to believe wise virgins are telling the foolish to go get the mark and buy)

Alighns PERFECTLY with Lot And Noah.

BOTH pretrib dynamics.Both leave before the judgement.

Pretrib is so solid.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.
So they weren't raptured away at all. The only thing that PRE Trib did was deceive them into thinking they didn't need "ALL" the Word of God. They were going to be "out of here". "Flown away to safety".""

lol
You really had to reform Jesus's words.
Too funny.

Bride
Bridegroom
Marrige chamber
Virgins
Oil
Jesus coming to fetch his bride.

Wow,you need all that reframed huh?

This is what is so dangerous.
Changing Gods word to make some rediculous point that pretrib rapture is offensive to their psyche.
Mentally forming scenarios in direct conflict with the bible

 

[Absolutely]

I love the creativity of post tribs with the 10 virgin parable.
I have only seen one post trib guy get it right.
In 35 years of debating,i still get a kick out of their messing with the simple story Jesus laid out for us, his bride.

 

[Absolutely]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.
So they weren't raptured away at all. The only thing that PRE Trib did was deceive them into thinking they didn't need "ALL" the Word of God. They were going to be "out of here". "Flown away to safety".""

lol
You really had to reform Jesus's words.
Too funny.

Bride
Bridegroom
Marrige chamber
Virgins
Oil
Jesus coming to fetch his bride.

Wow,you need all that reframed huh?

This is what is so dangerous.
Changing Gods word to make some rediculous point that pretrib rapture is offensive to their psyche.
Mentally forming scenarios in direct conflict with the bible

 

[Ahwatukee]

Has sackcloth abandoned this thread already? He was most keen on establishing no pre tribulation rapture

Hey Guojing!

Don't know. Haven't see him though.

 

[DeighAnn]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.
So they weren't raptured away at all. The only thing that PRE Trib did was deceive them into thinking they didn't need "ALL" the Word of God. They were going to be "out of here". "Flown away to safety".""

lol
You really had to reform Jesus's words.
Too funny.

Bride
Bridegroom
Marrige chamber
Virgins
Oil
Jesus coming to fetch his bride.

Wow,you need all that reframed huh?

This is what is so dangerous.
Changing Gods word to make some rediculous point that pretrib rapture is offensive to their psyche.
Mentally forming scenarios in direct conflict with the bible

Yet with all that talk, still not one verse. Not one verse where the Lord returns 2 more times. Not one verse where they are compared. Not one verse where they are contrasted. Not one verse that says He comes at any time other than THE LORDS DAY. NOT ONE. God did not put a single verse in the entire bible that says He is coming to "fly anyone away out of trouble". Many, Many, Many on "the 2nd Advent, the day of vengeance, return in like manner, at the trumpt of God, at the seventh, NOT until son of perdition revealed"

If you say "Pre trib", that means BEFORE Satan arrives. Either you are or you are not. You claim opposing views in the same sentence. I just went with the one you claimed to follow. It is not funny. You don't seem to like scripture, I keep asking you to give me scripture from God, you keep telling me what YOU believe. I must have missed your remarks to the 2nd letter to the Thessalonians. I go look after this.

(Pssst....you have to believe wise virgins are telling the foolish to go get the mark and buy)

No, not telling them to go get the mark but telling them "don't be foolish because that is where they are headed". Put on the full gospel armor, and leave the traditions of man behind. Have faith in God, "He doesn't have to "keep" you in the way in which you wish to be kept". ALL 7 churches are told to overcome even this one

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name.
Revelation 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

HOW CAN YOU BE GONE, AND STILL OVERCOME???? HE MUST BE KEEPING YOU IN "ANOTHER WAY" JUST NOT IN THE GONE WAY YOU DESIRE SO MUCH.

I know
who "IS of the synagogue of Satan but say they are Jews", I know how I will be "kept from the hour of temptation" I know how I will overcome, I have an ear to hear WHAT THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE 7 THE CHURCHES. I DO NOT have fear, I have COMPLETE AND TOTAL FAITH IN THE PROMISES OF GOD because I know Gods promises, and I claim them. I do know who the great whore is (and it isn't anyone who HASN'T ACCEPTED CHRIST) BUT I do know they "will accept another" that comes in his name.

Revelation 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God

after what things??? Heres a couple
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Where is heard the voice of the bridegroom and the bride???? on the earth???? And still NOT MAN AND WIFE? WHEN IS THE WEDDING???


Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Revelation 19:3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

The lake of fire, He hath judged the great whore, The millennium is coming to a close.
Revelation 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

The END of the millennium is the white throne judgment and the lake of fire, and then the marriage of the Lamb is come, AFTER?????????

But you said "rapture" happens before the millennium even starts.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


I just wanted to Thank you for the conversation. Please know I am not being sarcastic. It seems mostly in the disagreement that truth is ferreted out, for me at least. There is nothing more I love than putting out Scripture. Only by the grace of God go I. Only by His grace.

 

[iamsoandso]

QUOTE BY DEIGHANN;
"Matthew 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.
What time is it? MIDNIGHT. It is dark. Who makes things dark? Who is of the night? So it is already dark when Jesus comes. Remember what happens because of His Brightness when He comes?"

"MIDNIGHT" has zero to do with either view. It works for both sides of the debate.

You seem to not be aware that there is no buying and selling in the gt without the mark.
So you are needing EVIDENCE the
10 virgins are IN THE GT!
There is zero evidence. Nothing.
That parable ONLY FITS pretrib rapture.
(Pssst....you have to believe wise virgins are telling the foolish to go get the mark and buy)

Alighns PERFECTLY with Lot And Noah.

BOTH pretrib dynamics.Both leave before the judgement.

Pretrib is so solid.

In Revelation 18:11 https://biblehub.com/revelation/18-11.htm the one who sells the oil(Babylon),,,is she there on earth when the five wise say to the five foolish "go to those who sell and buy"?

 

[gaviriachristian]

The rapture is the gathering of the bride.
It is vividly depicted in mat 25.
Jesus is the groom,the 5 wise,half of the 10,are taken to the marrige chamber .
We see intimacy depicted between Jesus and his bride.

Now,not that dynamic in relationship with "tribulation"
The tribulation of that story is after the gathering.
Same with noah and lot (2 other examples of Jesus)

The rapture happens 17.5 days after the second coming of the Messiah, on the Day of Atonement. Read my bible study regarding this topic..... its long, but I discuss the rapture in there in relation to the Day of Atonement, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/10/2...nd-fulfillment-of-the-festivals-of-the-torah/

 

[DeighAnn]

1Samuel 17:45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.

1Samuel 17:46 This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.

1Samuel 17:47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give you into our hands.

1Samuel 17:48 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came, and drew nigh to meet David, that David hastened, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine.

1Samuel 17:49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth.

1Samuel 17:50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.

1Samuel 17:51 Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled.


Daniel 3:14 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up?

Daniel 3:15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?

Daniel 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

Daniel 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Daniel 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Daniel 3:19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

Daniel 3:20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, and to cast them into the burning fiery furnace.

Daniel 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

Daniel 3:22 Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.

Daniel 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellers, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Daniel 3:26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

Daniel 3:27 And the princes, governors, and captains, and the king's counsellers, being gathered together, saw these men, upon whose bodies the fire had no power, nor was an hair of their head singed, neither were their coats changed, nor the smell of fire had passed on them.

Daniel 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

Daniel 3:29 Therefore I make a decree, That every people, nation, and language, which speak any thing amiss against the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, shall be cut in pieces, and their houses shall be made a dunghill because there is no other God
that can deliver after this sort.

Daniel 3:30 Then the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, in the province of Babylon.




Daniel 6:10 Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

Daniel 6:11 Then these men assembled, and found Daniel praying and making supplication before his God.

Daniel 6:12 Then they came near, and spake before the king concerning the king's decree; Hast thou not signed a decree, that every man that shall ask a petition of any God or man within thirty days, save of thee, O king, shall be cast into the den of lions? The king answered and said, The thing is true, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.

Daniel 6:13 Then answered they and said before the king, That Daniel, which is of the children of the captivity of Judah, regardeth not thee, O king, nor the decree that thou hast signed, but maketh his petition three times a day.

Daniel 6:14 Then the king, when he heard these words, was sore displeased with himself, and set his heart on Daniel to deliver him and he laboured till the going down of the sun to deliver him.

Daniel 6:15 Then these men assembled unto the king, and said unto the king, Know, O king, that the law of the Medes and Persians is, That no decree nor statute which the king establisheth may be changed.

Daniel 6:16 Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.

Daniel 6:17 And a stone was brought and laid upon the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet, and with the signet of his lords; that the purpose might not be changed concerning Daniel.

Daniel 6:18 Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting neither were instruments of musick brought before him and his sleep went from him.

Daniel 6:19 Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.

Daniel 6:20 And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?

Daniel 6:21 Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.

Daniel 6:22 My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

 

[DeighAnn]

The rapture happens 17.5 days after the second coming of the Messiah, on the Day of Atonement. Read my bible study regarding this topic..... its long, but I discuss the rapture in there in relation to the Day of Atonement, http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/10/2...nd-fulfillment-of-the-festivals-of-the-torah/

Kinda off subject for a min, but "airflow" caught my attention (went to check out your page, and IDK, just something..).
Doesn't the word "ruach" get its' meaning more from the "usage" of it as an invisible force, that is only seen in the manifestations of it. God spoke and that invisible force created all life. That sort of thing. Isn't it also more of a Breath of Life, more so than "airflow"?

 

[gaviriachristian]

Kinda off subject for a min, but "airflow" caught my attention (went to check out your page, and IDK, just something..).
Doesn't the word "ruach" get its' meaning more from the "usage" of it as an invisible force, that is only seen in the manifestations of it. God spoke and that invisible force created all life. That sort of thing. Isn't it also more of a Breath of Life, more so than "airflow"?

The airflow you and I breath is what gives our bodies life, hence, "he breathed into man the airflow of life and and man became a living soul". Animals also breath the same airflow, giving their bodies life also. The set-apart airflow, which is called "holy spirit" typically, which is a mistranslation, is different. And it is this.... just as angels are able to transform into the form of fire, such as the example as the angel that appeared to Moses in flames of fire in a flaming bush, angels are also able to transform into aeolian bodies, which is a body of airflow, and when an angel transforms into that form, he is then called "set-apart airflow", for the aeolian body of an angel is set apart from ordinary airflows that are not living. And this is why there is a Psalm that says, "he makes his angels into flames of fire, and also turns them into airflows". This is literal, not a figure of speech. This is also why in the scriptures angels are called "holy spirits", and also why it is said, "the airflows of the prophets are subject to the prophets", for each prophet receives one set-apart airflow to inhabit his body. This is deep knowledge you will not hear taught in many places. I have an entire bible study discussing this topic in depth http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2018/08/2...-word-spirit-the-identity-of-the-wind-of-god/