Gospel according to James

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#21
It will be a mistake to read and understand the book of James on the assumption that "James has read Paul's epistles and understood them already".

The book of James was written before Acts 15. James was brought up under the Law and he was not aware of the secrets of the mystery that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul, before he wrote it.

Thus, when James stated that faith without works is dead, he meant exactly what he stated.
Paul and James say the same thing, and the New Testament is for New Testament saints so James is not going to point out something contrary to Paul, but the same as Paul.

Saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do being in the flesh.

And then when we receive the Spirit we have to have works of love by the Spirit, or our faith is void.

Some people do not know when Paul is speaking according to the flesh, and according to the Spirit.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Without love and neglecting love there is no faith.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Charity does not think an evil thought, and does not sin by the Spirit, which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Charity is not selfish, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps people with their needs if possible, or to help them with whatever is a need for them.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Paul said if they preach God blesses with their wants above their needs then withdraw yourselves from them.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy which love is the fulfilling of the law which includes helping them with their needs, which Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had that was not a necessity, and give to the poor, then he would be perfect to inherit eternal life, and the Church in Acts sold all they had and gave to the saints that had need, and had all things in common.

Which God said He wants equality among the saints that those that have much will have nothing left over, and those that had little did not lack according to their needs.

So Paul said we have to have charity, love in action, works, or we are nothing, and we have erred from the faith.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James said without charity our faith is dead, so Paul and James say the same thing all the while some people argue over the 2 men all the while they say the same thing.

When we are first saved we do it while in the flesh so all we can do is have faith, and our works cannot save us.

But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love, charity, or our faith does not count.

Which we know many people lack as they go by their wants, the prosperity Gospel that caters to their wants, and then say they are saved by faith alone while they lack love, and love is greater than faith.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John says without charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, or in tongue, but love in deed, works, and in truth.

Paul, James, and John say the same thing for they are speaking according to the Spirit, and not when initially saved where works cannot save us for we are in the flesh when we first have faith, and confess Christ.

For nobody receives the Spirit to be saved then has faith, and confesses Christ, although it is God that led them to the truth.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, the moral laws, laws of love.

And a Spirit led life is not under the law for their sins are forgiven, and they are not sinning, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Every time we sin we forfeit our repentance until we repent and get rid of the sin.

Which is why the Bible says that if we sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin, which if we hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash the sin away.

Which many say they cannot abstain from sin, and believe the prosperity Gospel, or go by their wants anyway.

Which love does not think an evil thought, and does not sin by the Spirit, and helps the poor and needy, or wherever they have a need.

So they lack love, and then say they are saved by faith.

But love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
 
E

EliBeth

Guest
#22
When we are first saved we do it while in the flesh so all we can do is have faith, and our works cannot save us.
Interesting phraseology.
Yes, faith works love.
A) Faith (salvation)
B) Works Love (fruit)

Praise God for His marvelous gift of Jesus!
"Oh what a Savior. Isn't He wonderful! Sing Hallelujah! Christ is Risen."
O Come to the Altar by Elevation Worship
✝️
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#23
Paul and James say the same thing, and the New Testament is for New Testament saints so James is not going to point out something contrary to Paul, but the same as Paul.

Saved by faith, and not by works, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do being in the flesh.

And then when we receive the Spirit we have to have works of love by the Spirit, or our faith is void.

Some people do not know when Paul is speaking according to the flesh, and according to the Spirit.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Without love and neglecting love there is no faith.

1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Charity does not think an evil thought, and does not sin by the Spirit, which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Charity is not selfish, and only goes by their needs, and not their wants, and helps people with their needs if possible, or to help them with whatever is a need for them.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains, but if he did not have charity he is nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

Paul said if they preach God blesses with their wants above their needs then withdraw yourselves from them.

1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy which love is the fulfilling of the law which includes helping them with their needs, which Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had that was not a necessity, and give to the poor, then he would be perfect to inherit eternal life, and the Church in Acts sold all they had and gave to the saints that had need, and had all things in common.

Which God said He wants equality among the saints that those that have much will have nothing left over, and those that had little did not lack according to their needs.

So Paul said we have to have charity, love in action, works, or we are nothing, and we have erred from the faith.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James said without charity our faith is dead, so Paul and James say the same thing all the while some people argue over the 2 men all the while they say the same thing.

When we are first saved we do it while in the flesh so all we can do is have faith, and our works cannot save us.

But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love, charity, or our faith does not count.

Which we know many people lack as they go by their wants, the prosperity Gospel that caters to their wants, and then say they are saved by faith alone while they lack love, and love is greater than faith.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John says without charity then the love of God does not dwell in them, so do not love in word, or in tongue, but love in deed, works, and in truth.

Paul, James, and John say the same thing for they are speaking according to the Spirit, and not when initially saved where works cannot save us for we are in the flesh when we first have faith, and confess Christ.

For nobody receives the Spirit to be saved then has faith, and confesses Christ, although it is God that led them to the truth.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, the moral laws, laws of love.

And a Spirit led life is not under the law for their sins are forgiven, and they are not sinning, therefore the law cannot touch them for prosecution.

Every time we sin we forfeit our repentance until we repent and get rid of the sin.

Which is why the Bible says that if we sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin, which if we hold unto sin then the blood of Christ cannot wash the sin away.

Which many say they cannot abstain from sin, and believe the prosperity Gospel, or go by their wants anyway.

Which love does not think an evil thought, and does not sin by the Spirit, and helps the poor and needy, or wherever they have a need.

So they lack love, and then say they are saved by faith.

But love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.
they disagreed in acts 21, after James was written

And if you take the mark of the beast during the tribulation period, you won’t be saved even if u believed in Jesus (rev 14:11)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#24
Hello EliBeth! The book lays on the table beside me. It has been some time since I read it. It is a thorough presentation of key koine words that are translated within their context and then presented within a summary of application.
is there a passage or section I can type for you?

I came across Mr. Zodhiates some years ago in a Bible study. I use his dictionary extensively and have several other works by him.
I use his dictionary also.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#25
This is off topic, but I am in an organized study of the book of Acts and we recently covered Stephen's martyrdom. Isn't it incredible how God allowed Stephen to look into heaven and see Jesus STANDing! (Acts 7:55)
Apologies to Lightbearer if he is not amused with my chasing rabbits on his thread. ☺️
Have at it my friend. Spirit leads as it leads.,
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#26
Lightbearer,
you obviously see the wisdom contained within the writings of James, as do many others. I brushed the dust off of one of my most valued books and opened it again. It is by Spiros Zodhiates and is a methodical, practical and relevant treatment of his words.

I would love to share its pages with those here that wish to go deeper into it’s pertinent wisdom. Do you feel as if this would be something that would garner enough interest to pursue?

With nearly 800 pages it will be an arduous but, I think, rewarding venture for all involved. Anyone else interested in what Mr. Zodhiates has to say about the book of James?
By all means.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#27
This is off topic, but I am in an organized study of the book of Acts and we recently covered Stephen's martyrdom. Isn't it incredible how God allowed Stephen to look into heaven and see Jesus STANDing! (Acts 7:55)
Apologies to Lightbearer if he is not amused with my chasing rabbits on his thread. ☺️
Yeah it was amazing because Jesus would have returned back, his second coming, if the Sanhedrin and the other Jewish leaders then believed Stephen and acknowledged Jesus as their messiah. (Acts 3:19-20, Matthew 23:39)

Unfortunately they dropped the ball, God the Father told Jesus to sit back down on his right side, where he is doing now. (Psalm 110:1)

But us gentiles are blessed as a result. Salvation is now open to us, independent of what the Jews do, because the Jewish nation have committed the final rejection of their messiah. (Romans 11:11)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
#28
Well, it looks like my posting of the commentary On James has disappeared, maybe I broke a rule by posting verbatim from my book?
 
E

EliBeth

Guest
#29
I posted a thread the other day that disappeared temporarily but then reappeared. It will probably reappear. 🙂
 
E

EliBeth

Guest
#30
Well, it looks like my posting of the commentary On James has disappeared, maybe I broke a rule by posting verbatim from my book?
^^^ forgot to quote your post on previous comment
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
#31
It will be a mistake to read and understand the book of James on the assumption that "James has read Paul's epistles and understood them already".

The book of James was written before Acts 15. James was brought up under the Law and he was not aware of the secrets of the mystery that the ascended Christ revealed to Paul, before he wrote it.

Thus, when James stated that faith without works is dead, he meant exactly what he stated.
Yes just as a body without the spirit essence of life is dead. No spirit no work...

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.James2:26

Neither book was written by the hands as the will of men . God moved the holy men of old. It was not a private interpretation (personal comentaary) of either man.One author in respect to the entire book as in all things written in the law and prophets.


First things first.

2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the
Holy Ghost.

Christ is not divided .

Faith without the works of God. . . called the work of faith or labor of love is dead. Can't separate faith from works .New born again faith is not of ourselves . It is not without Christ work of faith. It is a free gift in respect to his grace. The same grace we are saved by.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#32
Yes just as a body without the spirit essence of life is dead. No spirit no work...

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.James2:26

Neither book was written by the hands as the will of men . God moved the holy men of old. It was not a private interpretation (personal comentaary) of either man.One author in respect to the entire book as in all things written in the law and prophets.


First things first.

2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the
Holy Ghost.

Christ is not divided .

Faith without the works of God. . . called the work of faith or labor of love is dead. Can't separate faith from works .New born again faith is not of ourselves . It is not without Christ work of faith. It is a free gift in respect to his grace. The same grace we are saved by.
yes as I have said during the tribulation, if you have faith in Jesus but you still choose to take the mark of the beast, you will still be dead
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#33
In my humble opinion, James has been used by “works” oriented people to justify “do’s & don’ts.”
As if God does not have do's and don't's for Christians throughout the Bible? There are plenty of do's and don't's in all the NT books.

James is speaking to those who have already been saved but are not working out their salvation as they ought to. While he addresses Hebrew Christians, his instructions are to all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. And he does not pull any punches.
 
Dec 9, 2011
14,142
1,806
113
#34

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#35
Yes just as a body without the spirit essence of life is dead. No spirit no work...

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.James2:26

Neither book was written by the hands as the will of men . God moved the holy men of old. It was not a private interpretation (personal comentaary) of either man.One author in respect to the entire book as in all things written in the law and prophets.


First things first.

2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the
Holy Ghost.

Christ is not divided .

Faith without the works of God. . . called the work of faith or labor of love is dead. Can't separate faith from works .New born again faith is not of ourselves . It is not without Christ work of faith. It is a free gift in respect to his grace. The same grace we are saved by.
Yes!
Two types of Faith. Dead faith which is non-productive. And the Faith OF Jesus Christ our Lord. Which is of the engrafted WORD, the Law of Liberty, that we be the first fruits in and of Christ Jesus working the work we were worked to do.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith OFour Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,502
713
113
#36
As if God does not have do's and don't's for Christians throughout the Bible? There are plenty of do's and don't's in all the NT books.

James is speaking to those who have already been saved but are not working out their salvation as they ought to. While he addresses Hebrew Christians, his instructions are to all believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. And he does not pull any punches.
I understand your point. I should have been more clear that the way I was using the terms implied an outward compliance only vs inward resolve to bring glory to God through our actions.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#37
No saved child of God will take the mark of the beast.....the above drivel about believers taking it and then being lost is ridiculous and not biblical......!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
3,699
113
#38
No saved child of God will take the mark of the beast.....the above drivel about believers taking it and then being lost is ridiculous and not biblical......!
All saved children will have been raptured by this point. These people in the tribulation must endure to the end by trusting in the Lord, obeying His commandments, and avoiding the mark of the beast, even if this means being beheaded.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#39
All saved children will have been raptured by this point. These people in the tribulation must endure to the end by trusting in the Lord, obeying His commandments, and avoiding the mark of the beast, even if this means being beheaded.
I don't think he believe in a pre-trib rapture.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#40
All saved children will have been raptured by this point. These people in the tribulation must endure to the end by trusting in the Lord, obeying His commandments, and avoiding the mark of the beast, even if this means being beheaded.
Sorry...do not buy your view....post Great trib ingathering of all saved and no one earns the right by what you are selling in the post above.