Not By Works

[Pisteuo]

Your normal comeback.

I just asked you a question based on your post as to why grace is free because you did not say why.

I was rather hoping what you think free meant.
Asking not imposing like you do.

Should have known better.
Trying to open a closed door.

Should have taken my initial thoughts on the queue you came in with.



Oh well.

Give my question another try.

Lol, bill incase you haven't noticed, Christianity is pretty screwed up right now because of what you and I think. I'm focused on what the Greek writers were communicating, so once again, read the post thoroughly and answer the question.

 

[BillG]

Lol, bill incase you haven't noticed, Christianity is pretty screwed up right now because of what you and I think. I'm focused on what the Greek writers were communicating, so once again, read the post thoroughly and answer the question.

After you answer mine.
Then maybe I can answer yours.

One thing for sure neither you or I want screwed up Christian's

 

[BillG]

So all cats and dogs are saved and they don't need any work or effort to receive their food. They just believe the food is theirs and it is, don't have to accually consume it. Because that would take work and effort.

Read and try to see my parallel.

 

[Pisteuo]

Okay, I'm stepping out of my comfort zone to try and persuade you from a different angle. But I have to establish some pegs on our minds first.

When I woke this morning, the words free gift were on my mind. I have built a mountain of evidence that is certain, and many here including myself, give the words" free gift " power to try and knock that entire mountain down. Which by the way is the first rule in what not to do when interpreting scripture.

Anyway. Taking a Buick look at my New Strong's expanded, I'm getting a different take on the word free, and the word gift. Because when you put both words together " free gift " it gives our English translation that the gift is free, no work necessary to receive it.

Here are some definitions that I'm seeing.
1) abundant
2) magnanimous
3) nobility
4) make clean
5) innocent
6) to burst through
6) to open wide
7) to loosen
8) not a slave
9) unrestrain
10) exempt
12) liberate
13) spiritual endowment

Questions to you all?

Do the words " free and gift" accually appear together?
And does the word free in the Greek accually communicate something given without work and effort to receive it?

The work and effort being specifically.
1) Turning our life and will over to God daily.
2) believing that He has accepted the surrendered life and is maintaining it, sustaining it, and will complete it.
3) making decisions all day long, that support the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.
4) courage.
5) endurance.

Grace is a gift, unmerited favor. But give me some good reasons why Grace Is a " free gift ", none of that work and effort provided above is required. If this is so, you wouldn't even need to fulfill your understanding, which is " believe and recieve".

Okay let me have it!

Anyone else?

 

[BillG]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:15-17
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I guess Jesus' dying on the cross wasn't enough. Even His grace isn't enough, according to some.

If we have to work to earn His grace, then it isn't a free gift any longer.

 

[VCO]

Well that would make sense to me.

Marine Corps Humor

 

[limmuwd]

Who on CC has not repented? Name names.

"you will know them by their fruit."

Those convicted will know themselves.

 

[limmuwd]

"For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are mature, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." - Heb 5:12-14

 

[limmuwd]

"I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works." - Rev 2:23

 

[Pisteuo]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:15-17
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 6:23 is your only verse that has the words " free and Grace " in it. I checked, the word " free " in that verse doesn't appear in Vaticanus, siniticus, or alexandranus. Or KJV.

 

[Pisteuo]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:15-17
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Give me a couple of hours to check out Rom 5:15-17.

 

[Pisteuo]

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 5:15-17
15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The word is ," charisma " . It is used twice in the NT as " free gift". Gift 15 times.
It's defined as "a gift involving Grace."
" Deliverance from danger."
"Endowment "

 

[VCO]

"you will know them by their fruit."

Those convicted will know themselves.

You do know that spiritual fruit is Lifestyle Charactistics, not works, don't you ? ? ?


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

 

[dcontroversal]

You do know that spiritual fruit is Lifestyle Charactistics, not works, don't you ? ? ?


Galatians 5:22-23 (HCSB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

It is a trip when one ponders the absolute truth of the above verse and the concept of there being NO LAW against having/living/showing these in out life....another truth....these come in varying shades of degree and in every possible combination within the ranks of true believers.......I.E.....believer (a) maybe be faithdully mature and carry all to some degree....believer (b) may be spiritually immature and have the beginiings of a few or all 7....believer (c) may be spiritually stunted in growth and have 1....and so on and so forth......after eternal salvation it is all a process of growth and maturity coupled with the outward transformation due to the inward spiritual growth...

 

[limmuwd]

It is a trip when one ponders the absolute truth of the above verse and the concept of there being NO LAW against having/living/showing these in out life....another truth....these come in varying shades of degree and in every possible combination within the ranks of true believers.......I.E.....believer (a) maybe be faithdully mature and carry all to some degree....believer (b) may be spiritually immature and have the beginiings of a few or all 7....believer (c) may be spiritually stunted in growth and have 1....and so on and so forth......after eternal salvation it is all a process of growth and maturity coupled with the outward transformation due to the inward spiritual growth...

Those who are mature will show it by their words and deeds.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child;
but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

"For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?"

"For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are mature, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Amen.

 

[Lightskin]

"you will know them by their fruit."

Those convicted will know themselves.

You’re openly accusing CC members of not repenting. Not only have we repented and bear good fruit, but none of us feel convicted by the Holy Spirit for wrong doings that are not taking place.

Name names otherwise you’re admitting you’re a false prophet spreading a false gospel and worthy of being accursed.

 

[dcontroversal]

Those who are mature will show it by their words and deeds.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child;
but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

"For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?"

"For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are mature, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Amen.

Lemonade stand....make no mistake.....your self help guru gospel that leads to bondage and that which cannot save is skewed and not truth........and not one man of the bible, other than Jesus which came to be sin for us, was without fault, sin, failure.....Daniel was of the three men listed and God stated that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE to be delivered by the righeousness they had done these three men would be it....and with NOT ONE SIN RECORDED OF DANIEL, HE CONFESSED HIS SINS to God........there is not a just man upon the earth that DOES GOOD AND SINS NOT.....

 

[UnderGrace]

Lemonade stand....make no mistake.....your self help guru gospel that leads to bondage and that which cannot save is skewed and not truth........and not one man of the bible, other than Jesus which came to be sin for us, was without fault, sin, failure.....Daniel was of the three men listed and God stated that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE to be delivered by the righeousness they had done these three men would be it....and with NOT ONE SIN RECORDED OF DANIEL, HE CONFESSED HIS SINS to God........there is not a just man upon the earth that DOES GOOD AND SINS NOT.....

Check mate @limmuwd

 

[VCO]

You’re openly accusing CC members of not repenting. Not only have we repented and bear good fruit, but none of us feel convicted by the Holy Spirit for wrong doings that are not taking place.

Name names otherwise you’re admitting you’re a false prophet spreading a false gospel and worthy of being accursed.

He he may not recognize it, because:

2 Timothy 3:13 (NJB)
13 while these wicked impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others, and themselves deceived.