Pelagius' teachings are the Kool-Aid Supporting Free-Willer Theology

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#41
#41
UnitedWithChrist said:
You don't understand what I've said.

God regenerates the person, giving them a heart of flesh, from which faith and repentance flows from the person.

Therefore, the person can claim nothing as his own contribution to salvation.

Instead, you believe somehow a man with a stony heart manages to squeeze out faith and repentance. Then, he receives a heart of flesh.

Therefore, the person can claim, in essence, he contributed to his own salvation, even if he graciously concedes he only contributes, say, 1% and God contributes 99%.

That is what free-willer theology teaches, and it is called decisional regeneration.
Click to expand...
Yup I know all this, belief/faith is not a work and is not meritorious so not need to go to all these lengths to disprove something that is not there.
 
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
#42
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#42
UnderGrace said:
Yup I know all this, belief/faith is not a work and is not meritorious so not need to go to all these lengths to disprove something that is not there.
Click to expand...
Under the decisional regeneration view, faith/repentance is a contribution. It is a necessary prerequisite to the new birth.

I have already explained why decisional regeneration is wrong, though. The claim is that a stony heart can produce faith and repentance, in order to receive a heart of flesh.

The reality is that God needs to change the heart, and the faith and repentance flow from that.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#43
#43
UnitedWithChrist said:
Under the decisional regeneration view, faith/repentance is a contribution. It is a necessary prerequisite to the new birth.

I have already explained why decisional regeneration is wrong, though. The claim is that a stony heart can produce faith and repentance, in order to receive a heart of flesh.

The reality is that God needs to change the heart, and the faith and repentance flow from that.
Click to expand...
I already mentioned somewhere on one of your multitudinous threads, error versus error, and there will never be a solution/truth.

But carry on...
 
UnitedWithChrist

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
#44
Aug 12, 2019
3,739
1,928
113
#44
UnderGrace said:
I already mentioned somewhere on one of your multitudinous threads, error versus error, and there will never be a solution/truth.

But carry on...
Click to expand...
Thank you, sir, I will :D

The truth is pretty simple to me. God is sovereign and he rules over all, including salvation. He swaps out the heart of stone with a heart of flesh, and faith and repentance flow from this new nature.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#45
#45
UnitedWithChrist said:
Thank you, sir, I will :D

The truth is pretty simple to me. God is sovereign and he rules over all, including salvation. He swaps out the heart of stone with a heart of flesh, and faith and repentance flow from this new nature.
Click to expand...
That would be Madam....

.....we are called to believe/faith and that is not a work, nor is it mertorious, reason still exists in the seat of man therefore he can be persuaded/believe...... God does not do it for us, but God is still sovereign because He decides what He does and does not do with foreknowledge of all things ..... There all your problems solved and I did not have to write a treatise or an Institute to hammer it out.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#46
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#46
UnderGrace said:
That would be Madam....

.....we are called to believe/faith and that is not a work, nor is it mertorious, reason still exists in the seat of man therefore he can be persuaded/believe...... God does not do it for us, but God is still sovereign because He decides what He does and does not do with foreknowledge of all things ..... There all your problems solved and I did not have to write a treatise or an Institute to hammer it out.
Click to expand...
Has my senility kicked in again? Or did you neglect to tell me where your faith comes from if it is not a gift from God Madam?

I thought a madam ran a house of ill repute! Is young lady acceptable?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#47
#47
PennEd said:
Has my senility kicked in again? Or did you neglect to tell me where your faith comes from if it is not a gift from God Madam?

I thought a madam ran a house of ill repute! Is young lady acceptable?
Click to expand...
Just a polite address for "woman" in my book.

Faith is being persuaded/conviction.
Are you not persuaded of anything in your life?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#48
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#48
UnderGrace said:
Just a polite address for "woman" in my book.

Faith is being persuaded/conviction.
Are you not persuaded of anything in your life?
Click to expand...
Listen woman! lol

You avoided the question. Where does your faith come from if it is not a gift from God? My faith does NOT come from my intellect or reasoning skills, although BOTH of those are also gifts from God.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#49
#49
PennEd said:
Listen woman! lol

You avoided the question. Where does your faith come from if it is not a gift from God?
Click to expand...
There is a spiritual gift of faith, that is not the faith I am addressing!
But being dead in sin does not mean we cannot believe.

The Bible gives multiple instances where God everywhere calling people to believe Him, and faith is everywhere ascribed to man, not to God (Matt 9:2, 22, 28-29; 10:52; Luke 7:50; 8:50; 17:19; 18:42; etc.)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#51
#51
PennEd said:
Listen woman! lol

You avoided the question. Where does your faith come from if it is not a gift from God? My faith does NOT come from my intellect or reasoning skills, although BOTH of those are also gifts from God.
Click to expand...
It is logically unnecessary to make salvific faith a gift because it is not meritorious.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#52
#52
PennEd said:
Listen woman! lol

You avoided the question. Where does your faith come from if it is not a gift from God? My faith does NOT come from my intellect or reasoning skills, although BOTH of those are also gifts from God.
Click to expand...
Why was Jesus sometimes amazed at people’s lack of faith (Matt 8:26; 14:31; 16:8)?
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#53
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#53
UnderGrace said:
It is logically unnecessary to make salvific faith a gift because it is not meritorious.
Click to expand...
It is not meritorious BECAUSE God gave you the faith to believe SO YOU CAN'T/WOULDN'T BOAST!

If YOU decided with your intellect and reasoning skills to believe the Gospel, then you would be able to boast.

I still can't seem to get a straight answer. If the faith to believe the Gospel isn't a gift from God, where does it come from?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#54
#54
PennEd said:
It is not meritorious BECAUSE God gave you the faith to believe SO YOU CAN'T/WOULDN'T BOAST!

If YOU decided with your intellect and reasoning skills to believe the Gospel, then you would be able to boast.

I still can't seem to get a straight answer. If the faith to believe the Gospel isn't a gift from God, where does it come from?
Click to expand...
No decision, you are not listening Mr. PennEd.

Its okay.
 
PennEd

PennEd

Senior Member
#60
Apr 22, 2013
13,573
9,092
113
#60
UnderGrace said:
I was persuaded
Click to expand...
There's no other way to slice this answer than you believe because of your intellect and reasoning abilities.

So others DON'T believe because they have not been persuaded, which means they are dumber than you?

Runs completely counter to much Scripture. Like here:
1 Corinthians 1:26-29 King James Version (KJV)
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But GOD HATH CHOSEN the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.