Not By Works

[VCO]

yours has failed the test, many times. you just do not want to admit it....

That guy thinks biblical wisdom comes from Stanford University; not STRONG's, or VINE's, or NASB DICTIONARY. LOL.

 

[calibob]

You do know I was joking right?

That was for the benefit of the anonymous viewers. Remember this is a public foum. That's all Grace.

 

[Grandpa]

His burden is lite and His yoke is easy. But it's still a burden, it's still a yoke.

At least in the paths of the few.

Oh, I know. The burden of Rest.

Its really, really light.

 

[VCO]

Where did this guy come from?

Oh, I guess I was warned:

Matthew 13:24-29 (NASB)
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves *said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.


Why does he not want us to pull them up and toss him out. Real wheat that are his buddies will cling to the roots and be tossed out with him.

 

[calibob]

good luck following that train. Jesus is one of a kind nobody can mimick Him

At best we can try and trust that the Lord will over look our shortcomings. He surely didn't die for our sins then become petty afterword's.

 

[Pisteuo]

Can I use scripture, or is that a 'no no" based on the status/level of our relationship?

Sure, you can claim scripture! You can also go down to your local car dealership and claim a new car is yours too. But it's not, unless you have a covenant, a contract first.

 

[Pisteuo]

Where did this guy come from?

Oh, I guess I was warned:

Matthew 13:24-29 (NASB)
24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 "But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away.
26 "But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also.
27 "The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "And he said to them, 'An enemy has done this!' The slaves *said to him, 'Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he *said, 'No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them.


Why does he not want us to pull them up and toss him out. Real wheat that are his buddies will cling to the roots and be tossed out with him.

Sowing good seed in his field? Wouldn't that be to much work? Wouldn't that make void Grace?

All this talk about sowing, gathering, pulling, and tossing! Sounds like a works based theology that makes void the word of God.

 

[Pisteuo]

The "A,B,C's of Faith" - Faith is Action, based on Belief, sustained by Confidence.

 

[Noose]

Jesus was the first "goer", the captain, the unchangeable pattern, the point of reference, the benchmark. But God expects us to follow His train.

Correct.

Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

 

[gb9]

Correct.

Heb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

and what did Jesus say, that we are to obey?

believe in Him, and love one another. and what does believing in Him require? faith. faith In Him.


and, just for you, no Sabbath keeping required for Christ followers. no N.T. command to do so.

 

[mailmandan]

and what did Jesus say, that we are to obey?

believe in Him, and love one another. and what does believing in Him require? faith. faith In Him.

and, just for you, no Sabbath keeping required for Christ followers. no N.T. command to do so.

I often hear works salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's etc..) use Hebrews 5:9 to try and support salvation by works by writing a blank check with the word "obey" then filling in whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to accomplish in order to be saved (and they call that obeying Him) yet what they fail to recognize is that only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith. *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[mailmandan]

Most of the teaching has been wrong for so long it is now a matter of undoing it. People are so used to works or mixing works with grace they simply can't accept grace.

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[fredoheaven]

Your Faith or Faithing, as you've described it, is in the word of God. Your object of Faith is God's word!

With true NT saving Faith and faithing, the object of Faith is Jesus Christ Himself! A realationship with a real living person!

That is the difference between you and I.

It makes clearer, how subtlely you use some terminology, your Vines definition has been exposed, so "surrender" is no longer in the scene. Now you are trying to go to "works salvation". Your Vine source of defining a word such as "pisteou" actually comes from a Nazi Theologian Gerhard Kittel of his "Theological Dictionary of the NT" as translated by Geoffrey W. Bromiley. On p. 768 it is all there coming with "obedience" and I disagree with its definition of pisteou as "to obey" which is a heretical view.

 

[fredoheaven]

Pisteou, I supposed you have 30 years of misunderstanding the Holy Scripture.

 

[Ruby123]

How many works of righteousness?

an innumerable amount

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

I think it's through fear. They are afraid to let go thinking if they do, they may not make it. Surely it can't be that good or that easy. I'm happy to let go. Thank God for that!!

 

[mailmandan]

They are afraid to let go thinking if they do, they may not make it.

Which demonstrates what they are truly trusting in for salvation -- "WORKS" -- and not in Christ alone. Unbelievers basically take BOTH faith AND works, wrap them up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package and the end result is salvation by faith + works.

 

[Noose]

and what did Jesus say, that we are to obey?

believe in Him, and love one another. and what does believing in Him require? faith. faith In Him.


and, just for you, no Sabbath keeping required for Christ followers. no N.T. command to do so.

John 15:12This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.

John 15:17
This is My command to you: Love one another.

1 John 3:11
This is the message you have heard from the beginning: We should love one another.

Yes, it is faith faith faith but the faith the bible teaches is something different from what you are trying to teach.
Jesus Himself was saved by faith, but did Jesus have faith in Christ for his salvation or, did Jesus believe in Jesus for His salvation?

 

[Noose]

I often hear works salvationists (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, SDA's etc..) use Hebrews 5:9 to try and support salvation by works by writing a blank check with the word "obey" then filling in whatever amount of works they feel are necessary to accomplish in order to be saved (and they call that obeying Him) yet what they fail to recognize is that only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith. *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation based on works. *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

And you missed the point. That verse says Jesus was saved and the question is, how? did He believe the gospel? Did He believe in Christ?

 

[Melach]

amount and time of study doesnt matter. some people have been mormons for all their life dilligently studying and still are wrong

but someone can be saved for 20minutes and have it right.

 

[Noose]

Ecc 12:13When all has been heard, the conclusion of the matter is this: Fear God and keep His commandments, because this is the whole duty of man. 14For God will bring every deed into judgment, along with every hidden thing, whether good or evil.