Did John Calvin have Michael Servetus Executed?
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Isaiah 46:9-10 says clearly that God knows the end from the beginning.
Believe your Bible.
The belief that God is a dummy who doesn't have exhaustive foreknowledge is ultimately where free willer theology goes. Their desire is to diminish God to the level of a man. Unfortunately, I've seen this anthroporphic view in some of my friends.
This is called "open theology" or "process theology" and it assumes God is not omniscient, and that he experiences life in sequence, like his creation. God is the Creator, and is above all things, including the laws of time and space.
My theology is based on biblical revelation. All theology means, in essence, is the study of God and the things associated with Him.
Believe your Bible.
The belief that God is a dummy who doesn't have exhaustive foreknowledge is ultimately where free willer theology goes. Their desire is to diminish God to the level of a man. Unfortunately, I've seen this anthroporphic view in some of my friends.
This is called "open theology" or "process theology" and it assumes God is not omniscient, and that he experiences life in sequence, like his creation. God is the Creator, and is above all things, including the laws of time and space.
My theology is based on biblical revelation. All theology means, in essence, is the study of God and the things associated with Him.
L
“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matthew 25:41 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.25.41.NASB
"Which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."
So even though those who reject the Gospel will end up there, it was created for the devil and his angels. Some enough?
Matthew 25:41 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/mat.25.41.NASB
"Which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."
So even though those who reject the Gospel will end up there, it was created for the devil and his angels. Some enough?
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L
Not necessarily.
I cod put you in a chicken coop, it wasn't made for you but you could be put there.
In my line of work we do what is call confined space training, it's not necessarily for small spaces. It's for any enclosed space not designed for human occupancy. These places are not designed or built for human occupancy even though the engineer knows that there will be future cause for humans to have to be in that space for work purposes.
I cod put you in a chicken coop, it wasn't made for you but you could be put there.
In my line of work we do what is call confined space training, it's not necessarily for small spaces. It's for any enclosed space not designed for human occupancy. These places are not designed or built for human occupancy even though the engineer knows that there will be future cause for humans to have to be in that space for work purposes.
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church history is not a very 'nice' one generally speaking
however, Calvin was involved in more than one execution it would seem...he appears to have liked to play the 'innocent' executionner...as in 'oh well if you must put to death that person'...while actually pulling strings to make it happen...if you read historically researched documents containing his letters and similar, he appears to have been quite the murderous little individual
put it this way: since these accused were not believing his approach to scritpure, along with the predestined or go to hell presentation, what did it matter if they died? they were born to go to hell anyway so what did it matter?
there is a real push on Calvinism with the author of this thread. it's one thread after the other while he states he is not a Calvinist
yet it is the TULIP presentation over and over
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John here is an opentheist. The real question I want @John146 to explain is: HOW can it says God is Alpha and Omega, and How can God say what He does in Isaiah 46:9-10 if He didnt know Adam would fall? HOW could Jesus be elected for His work since the foundation of the world if God had NO IDEA what was gonna happen with Adam?
I ask that with love because you know me John I love you bro. How are you doing in real life? Good to see ya again broski, are you healthy, did you beat cancer or is it still a battle? I'll pray for you!
I ask that with love because you know me John I love you bro. How are you doing in real life? Good to see ya again broski, are you healthy, did you beat cancer or is it still a battle? I'll pray for you!
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church history is not a very 'nice' one generally speaking
however, Calvin was involved in more than one execution it would seem...he appears to have liked to play the 'innocent' executionner...as in 'oh well if you must put to death that person'...while actually pulling strings to make it happen...if you read historically researched documents containing his letters and similar, he appears to have been quite the murderous little individual
put it this way: since these accused were not believing his approach to scritpure, along with the predestined or go to hell presentation, what did it matter if they died? they were born to go to hell anyway so what did it matter?
there is a real push on Calvinism with the author of this thread. it's one thread after the other while he states he is not a Calvinist
yet it is the TULIP presentation over and over
however, Calvin was involved in more than one execution it would seem...he appears to have liked to play the 'innocent' executionner...as in 'oh well if you must put to death that person'...while actually pulling strings to make it happen...if you read historically researched documents containing his letters and similar, he appears to have been quite the murderous little individual
put it this way: since these accused were not believing his approach to scritpure, along with the predestined or go to hell presentation, what did it matter if they died? they were born to go to hell anyway so what did it matter?
there is a real push on Calvinism with the author of this thread. it's one thread after the other while he states he is not a Calvinist
yet it is the TULIP presentation over and over
if you look at arminius life compared to calvin life, arminius lived much better life. not saying it makes him right but just pointing it out.
I’m doing pretty well, thanks for asking and remembering brother. I had a stem cell transplant 4 months ago and am currently cancer free. My precious daughter was the donor. Praise Jesus!
Jesus was chosen as the method of salvation if Adam sinned. Presumably, if Adam did not sin he would have lived in paradise forever as God intended.
Jesus was chosen as the method of salvation if Adam sinned. Presumably, if Adam did not sin he would have lived in paradise forever as God intended.
So, is your claim that he knows nothing about how it will be accomplished? That somehow he knows man will accomplish it, but he simply knows the end?
Or, that he is a pretty good guesser, but he doesn't know the details?
Do you know how many details go into the outcome of events?
But, even further, do you think God is living life in sequence, like we are as his creations? Is he not above the laws of space and time as creator?
By the way, that is where open theism leads...this idea that God is anthropomorphic.
Some will claim that he knew all the details at one point, only he conveniently forgot the ones he didn't want to know for some reason.
I find it all laughable, and it relies on anthropomorphic references in the Bible that were condescensions to communicate with man.
Or, that he is a pretty good guesser, but he doesn't know the details?
Do you know how many details go into the outcome of events?
But, even further, do you think God is living life in sequence, like we are as his creations? Is he not above the laws of space and time as creator?
By the way, that is where open theism leads...this idea that God is anthropomorphic.
Some will claim that he knew all the details at one point, only he conveniently forgot the ones he didn't want to know for some reason.
I find it all laughable, and it relies on anthropomorphic references in the Bible that were condescensions to communicate with man.
You might enjoy reading the Book of Proverbs chapter 16 and verse 9 commentary The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
I don't care about Michael Servetus, either. It's just that anti-Reformed people bring the incident between Calvin and Servetus up a lot as an ad-hominem attack. Maybe a lot of them are Anabaptists who take it personal
Reformed means those who believe in the doctrines of grace (radical corruption, universal atonement, particular redemption, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints). Those individuals would include me.
Reformed theology is not false doctrine. It is a reasonable view of Scripture. It favors a God who is sovereign over all things, and seeks to honor and glorify Him.
Reformed people do believe in justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God alone.
Who said anything about salvation by works?
I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your remarks from.
Reformed means those who believe in the doctrines of grace (radical corruption, universal atonement, particular redemption, irresistible grace, perseverance of the saints). Those individuals would include me.
Reformed theology is not false doctrine. It is a reasonable view of Scripture. It favors a God who is sovereign over all things, and seeks to honor and glorify Him.
Reformed people do believe in justification by faith alone in Jesus Christ alone to the glory of God alone.
Who said anything about salvation by works?
I'm not really sure where you're getting some of your remarks from.
I am just trying to understand your line of thinking.[/QUOTE]
Some is a blanket doctrinal statement like saved by grace through faith not works. Once saved, always saved. I have recently changed the OSAS stance to if we were saved then go back to the laws, like not eating pork or circumcision for religious reasons our Salvation is imperil. Choosing law over grace would be a tragedy. I can see either or both for health reasons but that's different.
I didn't become Anabaptist by going to church, but by reading the bible. Deciding what I believe, then by search doctrine that matched. Otherwise, I would be a hypocrite. In fact for most of my life since comming to believe 42 years ago I was non-denominational.
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Some is a blanket doctrinal statement like saved by grace through faith not works. Once saved, always saved. I have recently changed the OSAS stance to if we were saved then go back to the laws, like not eating pork or circumcision for religious reasons our Salvation is imperil. Choosing law over grace would be a tragedy. I can see either or both for health reasons but that's different.
I didn't become Anabaptist by going to church, but by reading the bible. Deciding what I believe, then by search doctrine that matched. Otherwise, I would be a hypocrite. In fact for most of my life since comming to believe 42 years ago I was non-denominational.[/QUOTE]
I'm not real sure what you're asking me for.
Regarding "once saved always saved", I do not hold this position, but I do believe in eternal security. The Reformed view is that the believer has eternal security, but the Holy Spirit will lead him into deeper levels of holiness and being conformed to the image of Christ.
This isn't the same as "once saved always saved" as some groups, including Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and "Free Grace Movement", believe that a person can be saved by pure mental assent, and never produce fruit afterwards. The Reformed position is that those who are saved will produce some fruit, of varying degrees.
By the way I understood much of what is called "Reformed theology" before I was part of a Reformed church, and before I understood anything about John Calvin or any other Reformed figure.
I barely heard of Calvin before May last year and had no idea what the reformed position was. I studied Bible only and atteneded non denominational and Charismatic Churches as well as the Salvation Army Corps Churches wher the main focus was evangelism and outreach was the primary focus.
About free will. Didn't free will cause Lucifer and his rebel angels cause them to be cast from heaven? Couldn't God have made obedient robots if he wanted to be worshiped without choice?
About free will. Didn't free will cause Lucifer and his rebel angels cause them to be cast from heaven? Couldn't God have made obedient robots if he wanted to be worshiped without choice?
That's the typical free-will claim. I don't know if God could have created a being with free will that would not rebel. God has his own purposes. I am confident that he knows what he's doing.
Some claim that man was created to keep God company, too, but this is ridiculous. He had myriads of angels, as well as being a community within Himself (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). I think that kind of theology is the result of women Sunday school teachers injecting their emotions into theology. Makes a nice flannel board, I guess, though.
You might be able to claim that if God was a solitary being like Allah of the pagan Moslems.
Some claim that man was created to keep God company, too, but this is ridiculous. He had myriads of angels, as well as being a community within Himself (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). I think that kind of theology is the result of women Sunday school teachers injecting their emotions into theology. Makes a nice flannel board, I guess, though.
You might be able to claim that if God was a solitary being like Allah of the pagan Moslems.
church history is not a very 'nice' one generally speaking
however, Calvin was involved in more than one execution it would seem...he appears to have liked to play the 'innocent' executionner...as in 'oh well if you must put to death that person'...while actually pulling strings to make it happen...if you read historically researched documents containing his letters and similar, he appears to have been quite the murderous little individual
put it this way: since these accused were not believing his approach to scritpure, along with the predestined or go to hell presentation, what did it matter if they died? they were born to go to hell anyway so what did it matter?
there is a real push on Calvinism with the author of this thread. it's one thread after the other while he states he is not a Calvinist
yet it is the TULIP presentation over and over
however, Calvin was involved in more than one execution it would seem...he appears to have liked to play the 'innocent' executionner...as in 'oh well if you must put to death that person'...while actually pulling strings to make it happen...if you read historically researched documents containing his letters and similar, he appears to have been quite the murderous little individual
put it this way: since these accused were not believing his approach to scritpure, along with the predestined or go to hell presentation, what did it matter if they died? they were born to go to hell anyway so what did it matter?
there is a real push on Calvinism with the author of this thread. it's one thread after the other while he states he is not a Calvinist
yet it is the TULIP presentation over and over
I thought it was just me.
chapter Oh! verse... after verse after verse-
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