Did Moses report God’s law or report on its establishment?

[Blik]

Basically, do you think scripture is telling the world how the world is and always was or do you think scripture is telling of a religion?

Moses gave ways to live the basic law of love, and some everyday things to do to help guide to that way of living. What is truth in this would affect the understanding of "not living under the law", Judaism, and all the scripture references to the law of Moses.

 

[oldethennew]

JOHN 5:46.
For had you believed Moses, you would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me.
47.
But if you believe not his writings, how shall you believe My Words?
ACTS 7:37.
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A Prophet shall The Lord your God
raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall you hear.
ACTS 24:14.
But this I confess unto you, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,
believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[Deuteronomy]

...do you think scripture is telling the world how the world is and always was or do you think scripture is telling of a religion?

Hi Blik, I would say that it's both, especially since you seem to be principally focused on the OT/Torah, but principally, it's the former.

There are many "religious" aspects to the Torah however, like all of the lengthy descriptions of Jewish Temple worship, for instance, but I would say that the Bible (as a whole) is mostly written so that we can come to know God, who He is/what He's like, so that we can see/know Him for who really He is (His character certainly shines forth to us in the Decalogue, for instance).

The Bible also tells us who we are, who were are in relation to Him, what He expects of us, and perhaps most importantly for us, how we can find Him, become His adopted children through faith, and then live with and enjoy Him forevermore

I think God tells us what "truth" actually is in the Bible so that we can know it (of course), and so that we can recognize the lies and deceptions that we are led to believe every day (by the world, the flesh, and the devil) for what they truly are. Is it not astounding, for instance, that the Torah (which was written more than three thousand years ago) is able to so perfectly diagnose sin in the hearts of 21st Century men and women, the sin of your heart and mine? The Bible is truth itself, from God Himself.

~Deut

 

[Nehemiah6]

Did Moses report God’s law or report on its establishment?

1. Moses wrote down exactly what God told him to write.
2. The Torah was not a report but divine revelation -- every word was a word of God.
3. The Torah is the key to the whole Bible.
4. Within the Torah we have the Old Covenant -- also called the Law of Moses.
5. The Law of Moses was God's commandments to Israel for about 1500 years.
6. But the day Christ died on the cross and the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom by God, God ended the Old Covenant and introduced the New Covenant, ratified with the blood of Christ.
7. The Law of Moses is full of the types and shadows of the New Covenant and Christ. But shadows are shadows and reality is reality.

 

[Dino246]

Basically, do you think scripture is telling the world how the world is and always was or do you think scripture is telling of a religion?

Moses gave ways to live the basic law of love, and some everyday things to do to help guide to that way of living. What is truth in this would affect the understanding of "not living under the law", Judaism, and all the scripture references to the law of Moses.

Unfortunately, your propensity to paraphrase Scripture has led to your misunderstanding.

Moses did not "give ways to live the basic law of love"; he reported to Israel God's commands for Israel.

Moses did not give "some everyday things to to do help guide to that way of living"; He gave specific requirements that Israel was to follow to the letter, on pain of death.

Scripture doesn't describe the Law as a set of optional activities, it doesn't describe the Law as a way to know God, and it doesn't describe the Law as a set of guidelines for better living. It is LAW, for ancient Israel.

 

[Blik]

Hi Blik, I would say that it's both, especially since you seem to be principally focused on the OT/Torah, but principally, it's the former.

There are many "religious" aspects to the Torah however, like all of the lengthy descriptions of Jewish Temple worship, for instance, but I would say that the Bible (as a whole) is mostly written so that we can come to know God, who He is/what He's like, so that we can see/know Him for who really He is (His character certainly shines forth to us in the Decalogue, for instance).

The Bible also tells us who we are, who were are in relation to Him, what He expects of us, and perhaps most importantly for us, how we can find Him, become His adopted children through faith, and then live with and enjoy Him forevermore

I think God tells us what "truth" actually is in the Bible so that we can know it (of course), and so that we can recognize the lies and deceptions that we are led to believe every day (by the world, the flesh, and the devil) for what they truly are. Is it not astounding, for instance, that the Torah (which was written more than three thousand years ago) is able to so perfectly diagnose sin in the hearts of 21st Century men and women, the sin of your heart and mine? The Bible is truth itself, from God Himself.

~Deut

I am not principally focused on the Old Testament. I find that people are interpreting without what the Old Testament teaches, and I do not think they are understanding what God tells us because of that, so it seems to me that the teaching and happening told us on the OT is what the NT is based on, it tells the principles of the Lord so it is necessary to understand the NT. My focus is on the NT as it tells of our life today and how God relates to it but I want my understanding to be God's truth.

 

[Blik]

Unfortunately, your propensity to paraphrase Scripture has led to your misunderstanding.

Moses did not "give ways to live the basic law of love"; he reported to Israel God's commands for Israel.

Moses did not give "some everyday things to to do help guide to that way of living"; He gave specific requirements that Israel was to follow to the letter, on pain of death.

Scripture doesn't describe the Law as a set of optional activities, it doesn't describe the Law as a way to know God, and it doesn't describe the Law as a set of guidelines for better living. It is LAW, for ancient Israel.

If Moses did not give ways to live the law of love, then those commandments do not express love? If God did not want His commands to help guide the people what do you think God wanted people to be circumcised and to follow a certain diet for?

And you are constantly accusing me of misunderstanding God!

 

[Dino246]

If Moses did not give ways to live the law of love, then those commandments do not express love? If God did not want His commands to help guide the people what do you think God wanted people to be circumcised and to follow a certain diet for?

You're arguing semantics and trying to trap me. I won't play that game.

And you are constantly accusing me of misunderstanding God![/QUOTE]
Quote me where I have EVER accused you of "misunderstanding God". Misquote me and I will call you on it every time.

 

[Blik]

1. Moses wrote down exactly what God told him to write.
2. The Torah was not a report but divine revelation -- every word was a word of God.
3. The Torah is the key to the whole Bible.
4. Within the Torah we have the Old Covenant -- also called the Law of Moses.
5. The Law of Moses was God's commandments to Israel for about 1500 years.
6. But the day Christ died on the cross and the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom by God, God ended the Old Covenant and introduced the New Covenant, ratified with the blood of Christ.
7. The Law of Moses is full of the types and shadows of the New Covenant and Christ. But shadows are shadows and reality is reality.

Are you saying the word of God, God's revelation, does not report God's principles? Do you think that God has put a "do not read unless you were born in Israel" sign on it? Was it only for Jews? That is not what scripture tells us.

Where do you find about how God ended all His relationship and covenants with humans so He could relate in a new way? God gave us all the Holy Spirit and relates to us in our hearts, but I don't read that everything else about God is ended, where did you pick that idea up?

I find Christ in the world before His life on earth, all told about in the Old Testament. There was grace, forgiveness, beauty. I don't see this that all ended often spoken of, but I see lots of things added to and made better.

I agree the Torah tells us of the principles of the Lord.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Basically, do you think scripture is telling the world how the world is and always was or do you think scripture is telling of a religion?

Moses gave ways to live the basic law of love, and some everyday things to do to help guide to that way of living. What is truth in this would affect the understanding of "not living under the law", Judaism, and all the scripture references to the law of Moses.

The moral laws always existed. Moses just recorded them.

The ceremonial and civil laws was God's newly prescribed lifestyle for the theocracy of his elected Nation.

 

[Whispered]

1. Moses wrote down exactly what God told him to write.
2. The Torah was not a report but divine revelation -- every word was a word of God.
3. The Torah is the key to the whole Bible.
4. Within the Torah we have the Old Covenant -- also called the Law of Moses.
5. The Law of Moses was God's commandments to Israel for about 1500 years.
6. But the day Christ died on the cross and the veil in the temple was torn from top to bottom by God, God ended the Old Covenant and introduced the New Covenant, ratified with the blood of Christ.
7. The Law of Moses is full of the types and shadows of the New Covenant and Christ. But shadows are shadows and reality is reality.

True. The law of Moses was put under the blood when Christ was on the cross. However, the ten moral commands are still part of a Christians life. As we know because Jesus reiterated those laws and then tells us that they are all grounded in love. The ten commands and the prophets are what Jesus came to fulfill. Not abolish. The Book of Matthew chapter 5

The Book of Matthew chapter 22 verses 36 thru 40
36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, [n]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 [o]And a second like unto it is this, [p]Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets.

 

[Blik]

You're arguing semantics and trying to trap me. I won't play that game.

And you are constantly accusing me of misunderstanding God!
Quote me where I have EVER accused you of "misunderstanding God". Misquote me and I will call you on it every time.

I welcome your discussions of scripture, you make me question and think.

But here is a quote just from today; "Unfortunately, your propensity to paraphrase Scripture has led to your misunderstanding."

 

[Dino246]

I welcome your discussions of scripture, you make me question and think.

But here is a quote just from today; "Unfortunately, your propensity to paraphrase Scripture has led to your misunderstanding."

I don't see the word "God" in that sentence.

What I think you misunderstand is how to interpret and apply Scripture. If you believe in Jesus Christ's sacrifice as the only adequate atonement for your sin, and your hope is set on the resurrection He promised, you understand God correctly.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I am not principally focused on the Old Testament.

I meant that it seemed that way in this thread. I should have been clearer, sorry for the confusion!

~Deut

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are you saying the word of God, God's revelation, does not report God's principles?

God's principles are not only in the Torah but in the whole Tanakh, as well as the New Testament. That is not even an issue.

Where do you find about how God ended all His relationship and covenants with humans so He could relate in a new way?

Start in Matthew 1:1 and go to Revelation 22:21. See Hebrews 1:1.

I find Christ in the world before His life on earth, all told about in the Old Testament. There was grace, forgiveness, beauty. I don't see this that all ended often spoken of, but I see lots of things added to and made better.

No one is denying this. But God had told you that the Old Covenant under the Law of Moses is finished. If you try to revive it you are in REBELLION.

The day the temple was destroyed, the Jews were put on notice that the Old Covenant must give place to the New Covenant (Brit Chadasha). The day Christ died temple worship should have stopped. There can be no Yom Kippur without (1) the temple, (2) the Levitical high priest, and (3) the animal sacrifices.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Are you saying the word of God, God's revelation, does not report God's principles? Do you think that God has put a "do not read unless you were born in Israel" sign on it? Was it only for Jews? That is not what scripture tells us.

Where do you find about how God ended all His relationship and covenants with humans so He could relate in a new way? God gave us all the Holy Spirit and relates to us in our hearts, but I don't read that everything else about God is ended, where did you pick that idea up?

I find Christ in the world before His life on earth, all told about in the Old Testament. There was grace, forgiveness, beauty. I don't see this that all ended often spoken of, but I see lots of things added to and made better.

I agree the Torah tells us of the principles of the Lord.

Dealing with Biblical laws we have 4:
Moral, ceremonial, judicial and civil laws.

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/wha...remonial-and-civil-laws-of-the-old-testament/

Moral law is like any other universal law. They have existed since time began and will exist until time ends. These are the qualities of God engrained in our created image of soulish beings that have the inner consequence of right and wrong. The morals laws in the Old Testament are not void but Jesus actually expands on many of them.

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/what-are-the-moral-laws-of-god-in-the-old-testament

The next 3: ceremonial, judicial, and civil do change. Ceremonial like like laws dictating the sacrificing of animals or priestly cleanliness. Civil laws are laws that basically dictate everyday life. Like if you kill anothers ox that is dictated as a illegal action. Judicial laws dictate the punishment for breaking laws.

These 3 change. For a more modern example. Take stealing. This is breaking a moral law that has been supported in civil law. Stealing a horse in the 1800s usually resulted in hanging. That is the result of judicial law.

2019 if you was to do the same thing. Stealing is still wrong. Stealing a horse is still wrong but the punishment changed. Or what was once a civil law of restricting woman from voting has changed to allow it.

Back to Old Testament law. The moral laws will forever be applicable. But the ceremonial, civil, and judiciary system is under the Old Covenant. Paul explains the Old is still Holy and still good for teaching but the Old only condemns while the New is the law of Grace. We are no longer slaves to the Old but free in Christ within the New.

 

[Blik]

God's principles are not only in the Torah but in the whole Tanakh, as well as the New Testament. That is not even an issue.

Start in Matthew 1:1 and go to Revelation 22:21. See Hebrews 1:1.

No one is denying this. But God had told you that the Old Covenant under the Law of Moses is finished. If you try to revive it you are in REBELLION.

The day the temple was destroyed, the Jews were put on notice that the Old Covenant must give place to the New Covenant (Brit Chadasha). The day Christ died temple worship should have stopped. There can be no Yom Kippur without (1) the temple, (2) the Levitical high priest, and (3) the animal sacrifices.

There is no scripture telling us it is finished. We are told it is obsolete. According to you the whole of scripture telling of covenants before the new one is obsolete, and surely you know that is not so.

The temple is not a covenant. Even that Christ is now our high priest is not a covenant. Even that fleshly circumcision and kosher diet is not required any long is not a covenant although these things are now obsolete.

Deciding if the ten commandments is based on what was at creation or if it announced a new creation is NOT rebelling against God.