nephilim

[PennEd]

Genesis 19:1-5 King James Version (KJV And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Not where are the angels as strangers that which came with you we want to entertain them .

They were human messengers sent with the word of God same kind as below

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

He sends his human messengers out with the word of God, prophecy, Two by two. (angels as men plural) The great commission sent out many with the gospel two by two.

The unseen messenger are referred to as an "the angel of the lord" . They are administering spirits of truth.

Throughout the scriptures The unseen messengers are referred to as an "the angel of the lord", singular. They are not referred to as men .

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Judges 6:21-22 Then the angel of the Lord put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the Lord departed out of his sight. And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the Lord, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord God! for because I have seen an angel of the Lord face to face.

Once again, I'm confused by what you post.


PLEASE, no long drawn out answer.
Do you think angels are actually human beings?

 

[garee]

What you fail to acknowledge is that the nephilim were not just your run of the mill "bullies".

You want everyone to believe that God utterly destroyed all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things (Gen 7:21-23) because they were "bullies"???

And again, you never have seriously considered why there were no believers (other than Noah's family). Surely if a father is a believer who marries an unbelieving mother, some of the children would be believers?

I am not saying they were the only sinners as believers .He was not dividing the goats from the lambs.

What I am saying is used the family of Noah passed down the seed (spiritual Christ) to Shem.

You also gloss over the fact that at the time of the flood, God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4).

At the time of the flood, what did these angels do which caused God not only to utterly destroy all flesh, but also cast angels that sinned into hell?

I don't connect that verse to the flood .It is simply saying the gospel binds lying spirits or loosened them with the gospel .Lying spirits will be present until the last day when death is cast into the lake of God's fiery Judgement

There is much, much more going on in the flood than some believers marrying unbelievers and their children ending up being "bullies" who were tall.

Think about it before you close your heart to what really went on during Noah's time.

You again gloss over the fact that at the time of Sodom, God rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground (Gen 19:24,25).

At the time of Sodom, what did these angels do which caused God not only to utterly destroy the cities, all the plain, all the inhabitants, that which grew upon the ground, but also cast the angels which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day (Jude 1:6).

The bulling has nothing to do with height requirements . God used David a mighty man of renown to bully Goliath.

Again you are connecting Jude to the Noah account . That fall in Jude was most likely at the cross when Jesus said it is finished.

There is much, much more going on in the destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah than "homosexual men" desiring to "have sex" and the result being offspring (which is biologically impossible) who were "bullies".

Think about it before you close your heart to what really went on at the time of destruction of Sodom, Gomorrah, all the plain, all inhabitant of the city, and that which grew upon the ground.

That is all that was going on. The homosexual community accusing the believers as Bible thumpers .(who made you judge?)

The rise and fall of any earthly government has to do with moral issues. Its why history repeats itself .

God destroyed it as a picture of destroying the whole corrupted creation making way for the new. The bride of Christ the church. She will be neither Jew nor gentile, male nor female and like the angels that have no procreating DNA. .

No commandment to be fruitful and multiply.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[garee]

Once again, I'm confused by what you post.


PLEASE, no long drawn out answer.
Do you think angels are actually human beings?

That's one the kind seen . He send us out as apostles two by two. The other kind is not seen as spirits of truth .

 

[PennEd]

That's one the kind seen . He send us out as apostles two by two. The other kind is not seen as spirits of truth .

Cmon Garee!!

I asked you for simple answers. Not something I have to use brain cells to decipher, only to find your comment indecipherable.

Are angels human beings in your estimation? Yeah or nay?

 

[garee]

Cmon Garee!!

I asked you for simple answers. Not something I have to use brain cells to decipher, only to find your comment indecipherable.

Are angels human beings in your estimation? Yeah or nay?

I answered, that's one kind (human messenger ).

The other ones as sons of God led by the Spirit of God are not seen.

John the Baptist is called an “angelos” in Matthew 11:10. Its what believers do bring the message of God. He sends them out as apostles two by two.

 

[Dino246]

Genesis 19:1-5 King James Version (KJV And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

That does not support your position. The offhand comments of corrupt sinners do not in any way establish the exact nature of these two messengers.

In other words, you have nothing but your own opinion to say they were human.

Not where are the angels as strangers that which came with you we want to entertain them .

Your grammar is terrible. PLEASE take a class in basic grammar.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I am not saying they were the only sinners as believers .He was not dividing the goats from the lambs.

At the time of the flood, with the exception of Noah, there were no believers. Zero.

According to 2 Peter 2:5, God saved Noah ... bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.

With the exception of Noah and his family, all were ungodly. You have no explanation as to why there were no other believers. Surely with a believing father and an unbelieving mother, the father would teach at least one of his children about God and at least one child would believe???

If we are to go with your understanding of the record, all we have are marriages wherein a believer married an unbeliever. These unequally yoked believers had children, and all the children without exception turned out to be "bullies" deserving of complete and utter destruction. The believing father never taught his children to believe God or, if he did, none of the children believed.

Either that or God utterly destroyed believers and did not allow them access to the ark.

That's what you want us to believe ...

What I am saying is used the family of Noah passed down the seed (spiritual Christ) to Shem.

There is no issue concerning the genealogy of Christ. I believe all who have posted on this thread know and believe that Noah was spared to protect the lineage.

You also gloss over the fact that at the time of the flood, God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment (2 Peter 2:4).
At the time of the flood, what did these angels do which caused God not only to utterly destroy all flesh, but also cast angels that sinned into hell?

I don't connect that verse to the flood .

Right … cuz the context sure doesn't [/sarc]

2 Peter 2:4-5 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly

It is simply saying the gospel binds lying spirits or loosened them with the gospel .Lying spirits will be present until the last day when death is cast into the lake of God's fiery Judgement

According to Scripture, there are some angels cast into hell and they remain in chains of darkness to this day.

Again you are connecting Jude to the Noah account .

Go back and read your Post #177

And my reply in Post #178

Then look at your Post #182

I believe you are somewhat confused because I addressed verses concerning the flood as well as verses concerning the destruction of Sodom. It is your Post #182 which conflates the issues.

That fall in Jude was most likely at the cross when Jesus said it is finished.

Again ... context, context, context. Jude 1:6,7 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Scripture connects the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation with Sodom and Gomorrha.

No mention of what Jesus stated on the cross.

No commandment to be fruitful and multiply.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

First of all, please note that Matt 22:30 speaks of angels of God in heaven. I believe there are angels of God in heaven right now.


However, the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation were no longer in heaven (nor were they "of God" as they had joined themselves to satan). When they participated in acts which caused God to not only cast them into hell and bind them with chains of darkness, but also to bring judgment on mankind to the point where God brought utter destruction (in the case of the flood) and destruction of Sodom, Gomorrha and the plains (in the case of Sodom), these angels we no longer angels of God in heaven.




You have not answered any of the questions I have asked which would cause me to believe the records in Gen 6 and Gen 19 spoke only of tall, natural men who were "bullies" (Gen 6) or natural men who were homosexuals (Gen 19).

 

[Whispered]

would someone like t weigh in on who the " daughters of men " and " sons of God " are in Genesis 6:1-4?

When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose.
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterward - when the sons of God went in to the daughters of man, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown . Genisis 6: 1-4

The non-Canonical , meaning the book is not included in the Bible canon of today, Book of Enoch carries passages that refer to the Nephilim.

If you utilize any search engine and use the search criteria, book enoch nephilim , you'll find quite an array of results to consider.
Nephilim figured prominently in the ancient culture myths of Sumeria.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[addressing Post #187] As I see it, the "EVEN AS / JUST AS" of Jude 1:7 is in reference to the last part of the verse, which says, "are set forth as an example, undergoing the penalty of eternal fire."

All these "lists" are "set forth as an example" (of penalty/eternal punishment).

And that 2Pet2:4's "For if God did not spare the angels having sinned, but having cast them down to Tartarus [G5020 - tartarōsas ; Strong's: "From Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades)"], in chains of gloomy darkness, delivered them, being kept for [/unto] judgment"... I tend to believe the bold corresponds with what we see in Revelation 9:1-2 ['the key of the pit of the abyss'], context vv.1-12, taking place at exactly mid-trib (5th Trumpet/'1st woe unto the earth',) the same time that Rev12:9,12-14 takes place, which says, "he [Satan] was cast out unto the earth [now to be limited to that sphere], and his angels were cast out with him" with 1260 days remaining until Christ's Second Coming to the earth [not our Rapture].

IOW, He's reserving their batteries [those presently in the "abyss"], so to speak, for that future time period consisting of "judgments" [in conjunction with "Satan and his angels" who are not presently in the "abyss" (but one using "the key of the pit of the abyss" at that time)] for they have a role to play [during that specific, limited, future time-period existing/unfolding upon the earth] before their ultimate/final judgment...) JMHO on that. (you had asked how I am seeing this, in an earlier post... this is my response to that post also)

 

[garee]

That does not support your position. The offhand comments of corrupt sinners do not in any way establish the exact nature of these two messengers.

In other words, you have nothing but your own opinion to say they were human.



Your grammar is terrible. PLEASE take a class in basic grammar.

If they are called men as messengers (angels) which they are. . What would that establish?

Evangelist should be careful when bringing the gospel in the homosexual community ?

 

[garee]

At the time of the flood, with the exception of Noah, there were no believers. Zero.

I have not read that?

It said believers sons of God were unevenly yoked with unbelievers daughters of men. A new start.

Where Noah and his family sinners before the flood or after ?

The division of goats and lambs is on the last day .

 

[Dino246]

If they are called men as messengers (angels) which they are. . What would that establish?

Evangelist should be careful when bringing the gospel in the homosexual community ?

If you want to believe certain things about what Scripture says, based on what Scripture does not say, that's fine for you. However, you have absolutely no business claiming that your views are biblically sound. In this case they aren't. You are engaging in assumption and speculation, not exegesis.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

He's reserving their batteries [those presently in the "abyss"], so to speak, for that future time period consisting of "judgments" [in conjunction with "Satan and his angels" who are not presently in the "abyss" (but one using "the key of the pit of the abyss" at that time)] for they have a role to play [during that specific, limited, future time-period existing/unfolding upon the earth] before their ultimate/final judgment...) JMHO on that.

pickin' up what you're layin' down ... and I'll tell you this, woe to those on the earth. The angels that sinned and who are currently bound in chains of darkness did not mess around when they did whatever they did that caused God to cast them into the abyss.

talk about wreaking havoc ...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

At the time of the flood, with the exception of Noah, there were no believers. Zero.

I have not read that?

It said believers sons of God were unevenly yoked with unbelievers daughters of men. A new start.

Where Noah and his family sinners before the flood or after ?

The division of goats and lambs is on the last day .

So you believe when God destroyed all flesh wherein is the breath of life, believers were included???

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


And when God tells us in Gen 6:

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.


He's talking about believers?



And when God tells us in Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

So when God shut Noah in the ark, you believe God shut out believers???

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

pickin' up what you're layin' down ... and I'll tell you this, woe to those on the earth.

Yeah, well, that is why I'd said,

"[...] corresponds with what we see in Revelation 9:1-2 ['the key of the pit of the abyss'], context vv.1-12, taking place at exactly mid-trib (5th Trumpet/'1st woe unto the earth',) the same time that Rev12:9,12-14 takes place, which says [...]"

Yes.

Revelation 9 [vv.1-12 context] -

1 And the fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star having fallen out of heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given to it. 2 And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace, and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit.

3 And out of the smoke, locusts came forth unto the earth, and power was given to them, like the scorpions of the earth have power.

[v.12 The first woe is passed. [...]]

 

[Hungry]

interesting, thank you. but... Angelic cohabitation with mankind seems to be a stretch and a reach. Why would a spirit being, that is sexless and deathless and without physical form and have no need to perpetuate their kind be able to do such an act? And who's to say they have the right equipment? Are not Angles gender grammatical? Where does the Bible say they ever took a body? Also, Genesis 1"4 seems to indicate the Nephilim were on the earth at that time and afterward so couldn't their existence been the result of a cohabitation of the sons of god with the daughters of men? Daughters being of the linage of Cain and men being the linage of Seth?

Who ever said angels are spirit, without a body. When they visited Abram, they ate, and the men of Sodom wanted to violate them. Angel just means messenger. The term sons of God, actually is translated from sons of elohim, meaning sons of heavenly beings. Or sons of....extraterrestrials. That’s what this is actually saying, literally.

 

[garee]

Who ever said angels are spirit, without a body. When they visited Abram, they ate, and the men of Sodom wanted to violate them. Angel just means messenger. The term sons of God, actually is translated from sons of elohim, meaning sons of heavenly beings. Or sons of....extraterrestrials. That’s what this is actually saying, literally.

The bible says they are administering spirits. . either of truth or after the god of this world Satan, the father of legion of lying spirits .

Mark 5:9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

legion never comes as one. They have no form .

Messengers (angels) can be used to bring spirits of truth or lies through human agents to include lying visions . Like out of the body or near death or dream experiences as another source of faith other than all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura called the gospel ) that false source of faith is on the rise.

Sons of God are used as messengers of truth to being the gospel of Christ. Spirits of truth brought by men or in the case of Balaam's donkey . The Holy Spirit of truth put His words of truth into the mouth of a donkey and restrained the madness of a false prophet. .

Donkeys as a unclean animal represent unbelievers . When born if not redeemed by a lamb to represent Christ . They are to be killed.

We can plant the seed of truth as messengers but Christ must cause the growth or born again life.

God can use a person who does believes as easily as one that believes not. Its not who they are but what they bring. He simply is not served or moved by hand hands as a will .I think it is the reason why gives us the parable involving Balaam. We as new creatures are not what we will be .

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

My question. Why in the world a person would desire to give them form seeing we as new creatures do not wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal things seen. But do against the unseen spirits of lies..

This is clearly seen in the garden. The father of lies put his lying words in a creature seen . They by experience followed the three avenues of the father of lies. 'Pride leading to the fall. Rather than walking believing according to the things not seen. . God's word.

They gave over their relation they did have with God to a creature seen . And the whole creation was corrupted under its new ruler the father of lies. .

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

If Satan was a giant shapeshifter as if he had a shape to begin with. Then why would he just simply appear rather than bring his spirits of lies into Peter's mouth to cut off the key, the gospel that opens the gates of hell , Satan did just as he performed in the garden ..

Did Jesus say to Peter why do you not favor the things that be of God, but those that be of angels.... as shapeshifters?

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men Mathew 16:22-23

God moves men with the spirit of His truth also called the eyes of the Lord (innumerable )of the lord messengers of His truth

 

[ckhascall]

Who ever said angels are spirit, without a body. When they visited Abram, they ate, and the men of Sodom wanted to violate them. Angel just means messenger. The term sons of God, actually is translated from sons of elohim, meaning sons of heavenly beings. Or sons of....extraterrestrials. That’s what this is actually saying, literally.

Who ever said angels are spirit, without a body. When they visited Abram, they ate, and the men of Sodom wanted to violate them. Angel just means messenger. The term sons of God, actually is translated from sons of elohim, meaning sons of heavenly beings. Or sons of....extraterrestrials. That’s what this is actually saying, literally.

Don't you believe the word Elohim means the God of God's or the one true God? Don't you think that Angles or angelic beings are spirit beings that may look and act like humans but are spirit and not mortal like humans? I'm troubled by your definition of the word elohim. Sons of heavenly beings plural? Sons of extraterrestrials is not a biblical term is it? Thank you for your comment.

 

[Dino246]

Don't you believe the word Elohim means the God of God's or the one true God? Don't you think that Angles or angelic beings are spirit beings that may look and act like humans but are spirit and not mortal like humans? I'm troubled by your definition of the word elohim. Sons of heavenly beings plural? Sons of extraterrestrials is not a biblical term is it? Thank you for your comment.

The word "Elohim" does not mean "God of gods" or "the one true God". It is used of other entities in the OT. For more information, please see Dr. Michael S. Heiser's work on the subject.

 

[PennEd]

I answered, that's one kind (human messenger ).

The other ones as sons of God led by the Spirit of God are not seen.

John the Baptist is called an “angelos” in Matthew 11:10. Its what believers do bring the message of God. He sends them out as apostles two by two.

I agree that the Greek can use the same word to define what a human can be or do. But I don't see how this relates to angels as separate created beings. It is also only YOUR contention that Angels can only manifest as spirits.

The Bible specifically says otherwise in Hebrews and elsewhere.