Is Addiction the Sin of Idolatry, or is it a disease?

[Nehemiah6]

My sponsor told me that the closest people to God were the Indians. They used certain drugs to go into the spiritual world and communicate with the spirit world.

Communicating with the spirit world is not the same as being closer or closest to God. Quite the opposite. The spirit world contacted by Animists (American Indians) is actually the world of evil spirits -- demonic spirits. Shamans communicate with these spirits, but God forbids communication with spirits through mediums. This is witchcraft.

I know you are calling selfishness a disease ironically, but God calls it a work of the flesh -- sin. All addictions arise in the flesh and the lusts thereof.

 

[Pisteuo]

Communicating with the spirit world is not the same as being closer or closest to God. Quite the opposite. The spirit world contacted by Animists (American Indians) is actually the world of evil spirits -- demonic spirits. Shamans communicate with these spirits, but God forbids communication with spirits through mediums. This is witchcraft.

I know you are calling selfishness a disease ironically, but God calls it a work of the flesh -- sin. All addictions arise in the flesh and the lusts thereof.

I'm not condoning any activity in the spiritual world. But I like your use of the word medium. Drugs and alcohol are "mediums" to commune with this spiritual world. Whether evil or demonic, or anything else,we are not supposed to be there yet.

 

[calibob]

I noticed twice you addressed my posts concerning the power of the Holy Spirit in deliverance and you introduced other dynamics.

There's no question in my mind that the Holy Spirit has the ability to heal completely. In fact the Lord himself displayed several times by restoring sight to the blind, Sanity to the demon possessed and even a withered hand. No ammount of human effort can match the power of the Holy Spirit. In happen very rarely and usually amoung the faithful. Most Charismatic Christians that practice the gift of healing that 'met do insist that the person or people they have touched, laid hands on etc. Go see their doctors to verify the healing really took place and not to stop taking their meds without their Doctors approval. I am not a faith healer or a doctor. I am an experienced group leader a retired addiction facilitator and drug (including Alcohol) education instructor. Many of my consumers (clients) were institutionalized because of addictions and co-occurring disorders. Many were on probation after serving time in prison for committing crimes while under the influence or to get money to get something to get intoxicated with. They were not functional productive citizens yet.

The 12 steps is the most accepted treatment for this combination of diseases more so than even medication and psychotherapy. I could ask if a consumer has worked steps 1, 2 & 3 yet. And they said anything like yes I believe in Jesus. Then I could refer them to a Christian support group and give them credit for attending rather than AA or NA. Due to a little thing called the separation of church and state I could not legally send them to any place that preaches the word or Jesus unless they make it clear that they already believe. We can require them to take an attendance card to at least 1 12 step meeting a day every day and get it signed by the secretary there but requiring them to come to the Lord while receiving tax payer money for their treatment is Illegal!

Plus a lot of money if the have the drive to go after prosperity as motivated as they were when the money was spent on addictions. I will never stop identifying with them or as one of them. I just don't need that poison any more. An alcoholic dosn't become normal through abstinence nor a diabetic stop being diabetic by taking insulin.

BTW; I have known some Christians that ascribed to the name it and claim it, false doctrine, that will claim being well when they are not because they think if they confess being ill, it shows a lack of faith so they claim to be well in hopes that their faithful yet false claims will be rewarded. That's called being deceived.

 

[Pisteuo]

There's no question in my mind that the Holy Spirit has the ability to heal completely. In fact the Lord himself displayed several times by restoring sight to the blind, Sanity to the demon possessed and even a withered hand. No ammount of human effort can match the power of the Holy Spirit. In happen very rarely and usually amoung the faithful. Most Charismatic Christians that practice the gift of healing that 'met do insist that the person or people they have touched, laid hands on etc. Go see their doctors to verify the healing really took place and not to stop taking their meds without their Doctors approval. I am not a faith healer or a doctor. I am an experienced group leader a retired addiction facilitator and drug (including Alcohol) education instructor. Many of my consumers (clients) were institutionalized because of addictions and co-occurring disorders. Many were on probation after serving time in prison for committing crimes while under the influence or to get money to get something to get intoxicated with. They were not functional productive citizens yet.

The 12 steps is the most accepted treatment for this combination of diseases more so than even medication and psychotherapy. I could ask if a consumer has worked steps 1, 2 & 3 yet. And they said anything like yes I believe in Jesus. Then I could refer them to a Christian support group and give them credit for attending rather than AA or NA. Due to a little thing called the separation of church and state I could not legally send them to any place that preaches the word or Jesus unless they make it clear that they already believe. We can require them to take an attendance card to at least 1 12 step meeting a day every day and get it signed by the secretary there but requiring them to come to the Lord while receiving tax payer money for their treatment is Illegal!

Plus a lot of money if the have the drive to go after prosperity as motivated as they were when the money was spent on addictions. I will never stop identifying with them or as one of them. I just don't need that poison any more. An alcoholic dosn't become normal through abstinence nor a diabetic stop being diabetic by taking insulin.

BTW; I have known some Christians that ascribed to the name it and claim it, false doctrine, that will claim being well when they are not because they think if they confess being ill, it shows a lack of faith so they claim to be well in hopes that their faithful yet false claims will be rewarded. That's called being deceived.

Do you work the steps with people your serving?

 

[calibob]

Addiction is a combination of spiritual mental and physical illness usually but not always physical in the traditional sence of the word. However there is usually some neurological connection. The brain is very much a part of the body. It often incorporates some degree of idolatry as well. And behavior modification as well as medication and/or abstinence is usually a route depending on the Co-occurring disorders. Like Cancer, severe arthritis, schizophrenia or depression. I haven't taken any Psych meds in over 10 years. And I refused opioids after my knee implant surgery and I was released from the hospital. I take vitamin B complex and Tylenol.

 

[BillG]

What a shame.
I'm gutted by some of the response on this thread.

Is it idolatry, is it a disease, is it both or is it neither?

Closed questions that looks for closed answers.

What about

"Is addiction a result of a cause of the affect that leads to addiction?
Open question.

Addictions is not just alcohol, drugs and some other physical addiction.
Yet I notice alcohol and drugs are mentioned.

What about gluttony, gossip, fornicating and so on?

Why do people do such things?

That's the point that I see missing from a few here?

Seriously telling someone with an addiction or and addictive personality to just read the Bible or to just stop does not work.

If a person comes to you for help with an addiction and asks for help and you say read the Bible or say you lack faith for release then shame on you.

If they could just stop then they would not seek help.
Yes the Bible is the answer, but it's not just stop it.
Jesus came to bring healing, to set the prisoner free.

My post above is personal.
A guy with a severe gambling problem.
Why?
Severe upbringing with sexual abuse, rejected by my mum, never knew my dad.
Fostered by a Christian family only to be sexually abused by my foster dad.

Shame on you who say just read the Bible, shame on you who even say it to people seeking Jesus.

Cause of the affect.

Be willing to get to the root of the cause and be willing to walk with them and seen the guidance of the Holy Spirit in wisdom, love and compassion. Be prepared for the walk.

If you are not willing to do so then please don't do so.
If you have not gone through this or understand this then please just don't stop it or you lack faith.

Just let them talk, be a safe person or place they can come to.

My thoughts from a gambling addict a person who slept around.
The cause of the affect was dealt with when Jesus dealt with cause of the affect.

 

[BillG]

Ps no longer have a severe gambling problem.
Been healed of the cause of the affect

 

[calibob]

Gambling, food, porn/sex, video games, racing, ball games and music videos just to mention a few non chemical addictions. OOoops we left off religion.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

you were doing great until you said that

that just gives everyone a free pass to go on in their addiction because hey i cannot help it.

i see people quit things all the time. all substances we know people who have quit it. secular people. why couldnt Christians stop it if secular people can? it was in their control. you can go through withdrawal witth determination. with or without the help of Jesus. people have done it without Jesus so whats our excuse for not doing it with Jesus?

i know people in my family drug addicts who have quit succesfully. they did get saved.

That's adding words to what i said. Fabricating ideas that i never once suggested. Great argument. Credit me for something i never said, that you have an argument against. Fantastic.

 

[Nat2019]

2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

*Should we deny Gods power when it comes to these addictions and mental health issues?

Romans 6:18 New International Version (NIV)
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

*Jesus sets us free from sin.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

-I just want to say if we are denying God has power to change us we are denying his words given to Us.

God has power to deliver us from sin, because he claims it in his word. His blood cleanses us from all sin.

Who would be more powerful God, a psychologist or a program I would choose God.

This is because many underlying causes of addiction/ substance abuse cannot be solved by man. People such as myself haven't found healing from psychiatric medication, councilling or programs. What happens when forms of treatment Just didnt work for you and the only one you had to rely on was "God". Is healing of all our problems based upon "faith" I would say yes. Because I cant find help anyway where else in my troubles. Many people say they're underlying causes have been cured through psychiatric medicine or psychologicalists ,well that never happened for me, Now God is the only one I have to rely on. Do our underlying causes need to be solved YES. But to me they couldn't be solved by man. My healing is a process that could take years or maybe even a lifetime and I need God to help me alone because I couldn't find it anywhere else.
There is not a cure at a doctor but only your symptoms are treated. The underlying causes are not treated by a doctor. I think God has to help my underlying causes.

Some people may not agree but this is my experience. All have there own experiences that support their belief systems.

So It may be a process for many to recover in life.

 

[Nat2019]

If addictions are a sin then those who practice them, practice lawlessness.
Jesus came to take away sins.
Doing the same sin over and over and not stopping is practicing lawlessness. What does it mean to PRACTICE something?

1 John 3:4-9
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. ...

 

[Nat2019]

Does God say we can go to heaven if we practice any of these?
Are they addictions or does it say we cant inherit eternal life if we do them?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Are addictions acts of the flesh or a mental illness?

Is the love of money/ greed an addiction or sin?

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

1 Timothy 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

1 Corinthians 6:10
Nor thieves, nor the "greedy", nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Nat2019]

2 Timothy 3 New International Version (NIV)
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

*Should we deny Gods power when it comes to these addictions and mental health issues?

Romans 6:18 New International Version (NIV)
18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

*Jesus sets us free from sin.

2 Corinthians 12:8-10 New International Version (NIV)
8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

-I just want to say if we are denying God has power to change us we are denying his words given to Us.

God has power to deliver us from sin, because he claims it in his word. His blood cleanses us from all sin.

Who would be more powerful God, a psychologist or a program I would choose God.

This is because many underlying causes of addiction/ substance abuse cannot be solved by man. People such as myself haven't found healing from psychiatric medication, councilling or programs. What happens when forms of treatment Just didnt work for you and the only one you had to rely on was "God". Is healing of all our problems based upon "faith" I would say yes. Because I cant find help anyway where else in my troubles. Many people say they're underlying causes have been cured through psychiatric medicine or psychologicalists ,well that never happened for me, Now God is the only one I have to rely on. Do our underlying causes need to be solved YES. But to me they couldn't be solved by man. My healing is a process that could take years or maybe even a lifetime and I need God to help me alone because I couldn't find it anywhere else.
There is not a cure at a doctor but only your symptoms are treated. The underlying causes are not treated by a doctor. I think God has to help my underlying causes.

Some people may not agree but this is my experience. All have there own experiences that support their belief systems.

So It may be a process for many to recover in life.

Some errors in my post*Psychologists. This was the correct spelling. Cant fix it now.

 

[Nat2019]

https://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/practice-sin.htm

*Article about practicing sin.