Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[eternally-gratefull]

Being born again now is a totally different subject than actually being saved right now... We are not saved yet, we are not in heaven now. We are born again now with the holy spirit. At the end of lives we will find out if we are saved. But we have hope and the bible tells us to have hope of eternal life now.

we are not saved?



Romans 8:24
For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?


Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

 

[Noose]

Being born again now is a totally different subject than actually being saved right now... We are not saved yet, we are not in heaven now. We are born again now with the holy spirit. At the end of lives we will find out if we are saved. But we have hope and the bible tells us to have hope of eternal life now.

True, we can not hope for what we already have:

Rom 8: 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

The reason i say salvation is a process with everyone at the beginning (all men) but few at the end (those that are victorious). At the start point, no man has a role to play but Christ's atoning death covers all men:

Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

It is the abiding in Christ that now matters.

 

[Noose]

Belief

Then salvation is actually not free according to you, it is conditional.

 

[Nat2019]

1. Zacchaeus did not plan to welcome Jesus rather Jesus told Him what would happen, something like "today we will have dinner at your place.."

2. The change of heart that Zacchaeus had was about others and that was counted as righteousness to him and his household
3. Zacchaeus story differs sharply from the kind of faith that people teach today.

Looking at the kind of faith that is taught today:
1.Can we say Zacc trusted in Christ for his salvation?
2.Can we say Zacc believed in Christ for his salvation?
3.Can we say Zacc had Faith in Christ?
4. Can we say Zacc believed in atoning work Christ was yet do accomplish?

The answer is yes but not in the same manner that is being taught today; rather by loving others, Zacch had fulfilled all the requirements.

I think I view the scripture differently than you. But I will need to have a look again. Not sure where it went. But yes part of it was showing love to others I agree. But I think part of it was also referring to Jesus.

 

[BrotherMike]

So if we accepted Jesus as our savior and decide to fall and sin or deny Him and we don't ask for forgiveness and pass away, are we guaranteed salvation or were we predestined from the free will we chose? Doesn't He already have His chosen? We are to be disciples and go out and preach the gospel... those who we preach to and become saved, were they already in His chosen plan?

 

[Lightskin]

We are not saved yet

No, maybe you are not saved yet. but I am saved, as is everyone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Then salvation is actually not free according to you, it is conditional.

Wrong... Belief/ Persuaded of/ Faith upon the work of Christ Jesus is not conditional, it is guarantees eternal results.

 

[Nat2019]

True, we can not hope for what we already have:

Rom 8: 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

The reason i say salvation is a process with everyone at the beginning (all men) but few at the end (those that are victorious). At the start point, no man has a role to play but Christ's atoning death covers all men:

Rom 5:18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

It is the abiding in Christ that now matters.

Yes we have to continue to the end to get saved. We need to remain with Jesus through our tests, sufferings and trials. Enduring to the end to get saved.... and keeping the our faith until the very end😉

 

[Noose]

So if we accepted Jesus as our savior and decide to fall and sin or deny Him and we don't ask for forgiveness and pass away, are we guaranteed salvation or were we predestined from the free will we chose? Doesn't He already have His chosen? We are to be disciples and go out and preach the gospel... those who we preach to and become saved, were they already in His chosen plan?

IMO and what i have come to realize of late reading the bible:

1.Accepting Jesus has nothing to do with falling in love or accepting the character in the bible rather to love others. If you love others you have accepted the Christ of the bible

2. Rejecting Christ has nothing to do with rejecting the character in the bible but hating others in any manner or shape is denying or rejecting the Christ of the bible.

 

[Nat2019]

No, maybe you are not saved yet. but I am saved, as is everyone who puts their faith in Jesus Christ.

Well your definition of faith isn't the definition of faith according to James because it doesnt believe in works (LOVE). So the definition of faith you have is faith alone "demon faith" according to James. This faith doesn't actually save but it's only merely a belief in one God. You believe there is one God good even the demons believe that and shudder. Oh foolish person do you want evidence that faith without works is useless?????

 

[Noose]

Wrong... Belief/ Persuaded of/ Faith upon the work of Christ Jesus is not conditional, it is guarantees eternal results.

Does a child need to be persuaded or have faith upon or believe the work of Christ?

Put in mind:

Matt 18: 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Noose]

Yes we have to continue to the end to get saved. We need to remain with Jesus through our tests, sufferings and trials. Enduring to the end to get saved.... and keeping the our faith until the very end😉

And that is obedience.

2 John 1:5And now I urge you, dear lady—not as a new commandment to you, but one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

 

[UnderGrace]

Does a child need to be persuaded or have faith upon or believe the work of Christ?

Put in mind:

Matt 18: 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is not connected ... saved is saved..... there is no quasi saved in scripture

 

[UnderGrace]

IMO and what i have come to realize of late reading the bible:

1.Accepting Jesus has nothing to do with falling in love or accepting the character in the bible rather to love others. If you love others you have accepted the Christ of the bible

2. Rejecting Christ has nothing to do with rejecting the character in the bible but hating others in any manner or shape is denying or rejecting the Christ of the bible.

Noose where do you ge this stuff .. seriously?

 

[Lightskin]

Well your definition of faith isn't the definition of faith according to James because it doesnt believe in works (LOVE). So the definition of faith you have is faith alone "demon faith" according to James. This faith doesn't actually save but it's only merely a belief in one God. You believe there is one God good even the demons believe that and shudder. Oh foolish person do you want evidence that faith without works is useless?????

Newsflash, don’t tell me what I believe in and what I don’t believe in because you have no idea. You got that?

I focus on the words of Jesus Christ Himself which states that if we believe in Him we shall not perish but have everlasting life. It doesn’t get any simpler or clearer than that.

 

[Nat2019]

So if we accepted Jesus as our savior and decide to fall and sin or deny Him and we don't ask for forgiveness and pass away, are we guaranteed salvation or were we predestined from the free will we chose? Doesn't He already have His chosen? We are to be disciples and go out and preach the gospel... those who we preach to and become saved, were they already in His chosen plan?

Hi there....What is the point of preaching to people if they were already chosen according to OSAS and why did Jesus die if people were already chosen to be Gods FAVOURITES. To me this doesn't make sense. I believe in free will by the way. Nice to meet you😊 Not sure what doctrine you follow?

 

[BrotherMike]

IMO and what i have come to realize of late reading the bible:

1.Accepting Jesus has nothing to do with falling in love or accepting the character in the bible rather to love others. If you love others you have accepted the Christ of the bible

2. Rejecting Christ has nothing to do with rejecting the character in the bible but hating others in any manner or shape is denying or rejecting the Christ of the bible.

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

First commandment is to Love God... when we love and obey Him, we are accepting Him as our savior. Yes, our second commandment is to love one another, however IMO loving our neighbor is not the same thing as loving our God.

 

[Nat2019]

Newsflash, don’t tell me what I believe in and what I don’t believe in because you have no idea. You got that, pookie?

I focus on the words of Jesus Christ Himself which states that if we believe in Him we shall not perish but have everlasting life. It doesn’t get any simpler or clearer than that.

I wont talk about "good works" they might offend you🙃

 

[Noose]

This is not connected ... saved is saved..... there is no quasi saved in scripture

Yes, it is connected.

IOW, Jesus is saying, unless we change and become like children, we can not be saved. I was just wondering, do children have to be persuaded or believe in Christ's atoning work?

 

[Nat2019]

And that is obedience.

2 John 1:5And now I urge you, dear lady—not as a new commandment to you, but one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

Very good scripture 😊