Did Jesus and Paul teach differnt gospels?

[Marcelo]

The only time "heavenly Jesus" directly speaks is in Revelation. and "Earthly Jesus" says His earthly words will never pass and those words He spoke on earth are the doctrine:

So you mean Paul's words are not from the risen Jesus, correct?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Paul said he did not receive the revelation of Jesus from man, but from Jesus, for it was Jesus that gave Paul all his teachings to teach, so why would Paul say something different than Jesus when he said that all his teachings come from Jesus.

Jesus says that the words to follow are the one "He spoke while with (the disciples)" and "the holy Spirit wil bring THOSE words to memory"

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

Yet Paul says "Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer"

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, “From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

Galatians 1:11-12, “But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

Galatians 1:16-17, “To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.”

If indded Paul did get his message from " the revelation of Jesus Christ" it would be THE EXACT SAME message Jesus spoke on earth accoring to Jesus own words in John 14:23-26.

My thought is then why does he disagree with the disciple so much and say Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel," and 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars." Why say Peter was sent to Jews and Paul to Gentiels when Jesus sent all His disciples to all people.

If Paul addressed something that people think Jesus did not address while on earth does not mean they are not preaching the same, and Paul received all his teachings from Jesus so it would be covered there, but Jesus and Paul preached the same.

Paul, Peter, and the other writers would cover things that Jesus did not, or go in to more detail, and knowledge, for Jesus came to preach the Gospel and not to get in to every aspect of the future although He did tell us the future, and other things.

Jesus covered it and they went in to more detail, and knowledge about it, and it is all the same.

Im in agreement about more detail, but not teaching against in any case. Paul contradicts Jesus words, if it is a new gospel that is supposed to be taught than it would be ok but if Jesus words will not pass then it is not:

1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void."

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

If indded Paul did get his message from " the revelation of Jesus Christ" it would be THE EXACT SAME message Jesus spoke on earth accoring to Jesus own words in John 14:23-26. Why does Paul say "Christ sent me not to baptize" and Jesus says "make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them "

Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."

Luke 20:38, "Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”

1 Corinthians 5:11, "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one."

Luke 15:1-2, "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

Romans 13:1-2, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Hosea 8:4, "They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction."

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo, I say this honeslty, it seems to me you look for reasons not to follow Jesus, and you claims that "Earthly Jesus" words are not for you goes against what He said a number of times, particularly in John 14, the verse I continually quote to you. If you are really seeking Jesus how can you not hear His call, how can you so easily reject what He is saying?

During His walk on earth Jesus said: "sell that ye have and give alms". Have you already sold all your property and given the money to the poor?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Yes that was the original plan. But when the opportunity came and they could have had the King and the Kingdom, and they could have brought all the nations of the world to a knowledge of their God. But In their unbelief they rejected the King and the Kingdom. So God turned to the Gentiles through the Apostle Paul without using the Nation of Israel.
Now God has not forgotten the nation of Israel, after the church age is complete and rapture has taken place, God reverts His attention back to the nation of Israel, the two witness, the 144000 etc

But the disciples did not reject it. They carried it too all nations they could reach. Thus if many Jews did reject it that has nothing to do with the mission Jesus sent them on.

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Revelation 21:14, “And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

Peter was martyred in Rome about 66-68 AD, during the persecution under Emperor Nero. Origen says Peter was crucified, upside down at his request, because he did not feel he was worthy to die in the same manner as the Messiah.

Andrew went to the "Land of the Man-Eaters," in what is in modern times Russia. Christians there he was the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece, Patrae in Achaia is where he is said to have been crucified on an x-shaped cross he called to the crowds and taught them about Jesus Christ and how they might be saved, thus he was sharing the gospel up until the very time of his death.

Thomas was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as Edessa and India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder. They claim that he died there when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers.

Philip possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, in Phrygia and died at Hierapolis. The tomb of the Apostle Phillip is found in Hierapolis where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul, the proconsul had Philip arrested and cruelly put to death. He was impaled by iron hooks in his ankles and hung upside down to die.

Matthew the tax collector and writer of a Gospel, ministered to the Persians, Parthians, Medes and Ethiopians, he was staked or impaled to the earth by spears and then beheaded.

Bartholomew/Nathaniel had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia. There are various accounts of how he met his death as a martyr for the gospel. Most agree that he was basically flayed to death by whip, where he was literally torn to shreds, martyred in Armenia, he too must have been involved in the Great Commission and taking the good news into that part of the world. Apparently, he became a missionary to Asia Minor.

James the son of Alpheus, is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria. The Jewish historian Josephus reported the James was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a club.

James the son of Zebedee: He was beheaded by Herod Agrippa the 1st shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. (Acts 12: 1-2)

Simon the Zealot so the story goes, ministered in Persia and he was was crucified after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god.

Matthais was the apostle chosen to replace Judas in fulfillment of prophecy (Psalm 69:25, 109:8). sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin and stoned.

When Matthias was already dead, the Jews, to hide their malefaction, cut off his head as an enemy of Caesar. According to several historians, the Apostle Matthias was crucified, and indicate that he instead died at Colchis, some even say he was burned.

Jude (Thaddeus): according to tradition Jude taught in Armenia, Syria and Persia where he was martyred by crucifixion. Tradition tells us he was buried in Kara Kalisa in what is now Iran.

John was imprisoned during Domitian's persecution in the middle 90's, he was exiled to the island of Patmos, were he was given visions and wrote the Revelation of Jesus Christ. He was later freed and went to Turkey, perhaps on a mission to establish churches there. John is the only one of the company generally thought to have died a natural death from old age between 90 AD to 120 AD. He was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Jesus in his home.

 

[Melach]

1 Corinthians 10:23-33, “All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For “the earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.” If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in everything I do, not seeking my own advantage, but that of many, that they may be saved."

I do not believe "all things are lawful" stealing, lying, murder, among many others are not lawful, how can these be sin and "all things are lawfu" at the same time?

"All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience"

If no questions are asked then one might eat meat sacrificed to idols without knowing? If the holy spirit says "do not" then why would it be ok to be willingly ignorant and "do"?

He says " if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice" what if they do not tell you and you do not ask? That seems like a way to accidentally eat meat sacrified to idols?

and What about this verse in bold? " eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. "This seems to trivialize it? So again if hey do not tell you and you are "not supposed to ask" that sounds like a stumbling block to accidentally eat meat sacrificed to idols becaused one did not ask.

Then another part that I don't feel comfortable with is this"then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience?"

So Paul says "do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— I do not mean your conscience, but his"

but the next verse says "For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience?"

I don't hink it matters what people think I think it matters what God thinks, the holy Spirit said no in Acts 15 why does conscience even play a roe in determining what to do or not to do when the holy Spirit plainly stated not to?

answer this someone now fast fast fast.

 

[Marcelo]

Is it wrong to have money or is it wrong to put money before God? I don't think it is wrong to have enough money to buy a meal and pay rent, however if I had millions and did not use most of it to help the poor I think that would be an issue and against what Jesus taught. Easier said than done without doubt, however if the love of money becomes a part of one's life it is a problem 100%

According to Jesus (prior to his ascension) it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone rich to enter heaven.

According to Paul (the risen Christ's spokesman) it is OK to be rich provided you are generous and not arrogant.

 

[Melach]

Jesus says that the words to follow are the one "He spoke while with (the disciples)" and "the holy Spirit wil bring THOSE words to memory"

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

Yet Paul says "Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer"

2 Corinthians 5:16-17, “From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.”

Galatians 1:11-12, “But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.”

Galatians 1:16-17, “To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.”

If indded Paul did get his message from " the revelation of Jesus Christ" it would be THE EXACT SAME message Jesus spoke on earth accoring to Jesus own words in John 14:23-26.

My thought is then why does he disagree with the disciple so much and say Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel," and 2:9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars." Why say Peter was sent to Jews and Paul to Gentiels when Jesus sent all His disciples to all people.



Im in agreement about more detail, but not teaching against in any case. Paul contradicts Jesus words, if it is a new gospel that is supposed to be taught than it would be ok but if Jesus words will not pass then it is not:

1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void."

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

If indded Paul did get his message from " the revelation of Jesus Christ" it would be THE EXACT SAME message Jesus spoke on earth accoring to Jesus own words in John 14:23-26. Why does Paul say "Christ sent me not to baptize" and Jesus says "make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them "

Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."

Luke 20:38, "Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”

1 Corinthians 5:11, "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one."

Luke 15:1-2, "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them."

Romans 13:1-2, "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God."

Hosea 8:4, "They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction."

my goodness. someone answer these now fast. go go go. please tell me whats going on someone
do you know whats going on are u trying ot make a point get to conclusion now @FollowtheShepherd

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

So you mean Paul's words are not from the risen Jesus, correct?

Well as Peter said in the Ephesus trial of Paul recorded in history by an Ebionite writing, we can not comfirm or deny if Jesus appeared to him" Now no matter if that is even fully accurate or not, this does matter:

If people knew and applied the word it would help, one can not testify on their own behalf to SETTLE a case or prove a fact. 2 or more witnesses are needed.

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

Paul is the only one that calls himself an apostle/disciple, 2 Peter calls him a brother and is in line with what the Ebionite writings say about Paul's trial in Ephesusand he himself eludes to:

2 Timothy 4:14-17,14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will pay him back for what he did."15 You, too, must watch out for him, for he violently opposed our message."16 At my first trial no one came to my defense. Everyone abandoned me. May it not be held against them!"17 However, the Lord stood by me and gave me strength so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the gentiles could hear it. I was rescued out of a lion’s mouth."

2 Timothy 1:15-18,15 You know that everyone in Asia has abandoned me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes."16 May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus, for he often took care of me and was not ashamed that I was a prisoner."17 Instead, when he arrived in Rome he searched diligently for me and found me."18 May the Lord grant that he finds mercy on the day he comes again. You know very well how much he assisted me in Ephesus."

Interesting this Ephesus is in Asia.

Revelation 1:10-11, " 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

"which are in Asia; unto Ephesus"

Acts 19:1,8-9, “1, It was while Apollos was in Corinth that Paul passed through the inland districts and came to Ephesus. He found a few disciples there 8, "He went into the synagogue and spoke there boldly for three months, holding discussions and persuading those who heard him about the kingdom of God. 9, "But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them, taking his disciples away with him, and held daily discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.”

"came to Ephesus...But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them"

Revelation 2:1-3, " 1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.

To me it is worth investigation when people are telling me Jesus words are no more and another speaks in Jesus place now.

 

[Chester]

Greetings,





Since I have been on CC BDF I have noticed some hold a doctrine that Jesus teachings are either done away post resurrection/ascension or Jesus teachings are for Jews only and Paul's teachings are for Gentiles. I disagree with this and believe Jesus teachings are not done away and are for all people of every nation. I wanted to start a topic on this and see different views and different verses so I may know the truth. As I stated I have my view and believe it is correct.

I have two starting points:

1. While Jesus may had started in Israel, He sent all His chosen disciples to all the nations in the world:

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

2. That Jesus words while on earth in the flesh are the true doctrine to follow and still valid:

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you. 26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words (teachings) will not pass away.”

Jesus and Paul preached the same gospel: though sometimes with different emphases . Paul said things Jesus never directly said: but Jesus laid the foundation for all that came after Him.

What about the Sermon on the Mount? Was this intended for us to literally follow? or was it given to the Jews only? Or is it for a future age?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

During His walk on earth Jesus said: "sell that ye have and give alms". Have you already sold all your property and given the money to the poor?

How does my obedience or disobedience make Jesus wordstrue or false?

You are looking for reasins to toss out Jesus words it seems.

Was the meaning of that verse that no one can have enough money to buy a meal or pay for a place to live? or was the message that money can not come before following God?

Matthew 19:16-22, " 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."

This man's worldly possessions stopped him from following Jesus. Can a man be able to afford a meal and a bed and follow Jesus?

I say yes as long as Jesus comes first:

Mat 6:24, “No one is able to serve two masters, for either he shall hate the one and love the other, or else he shall cleave to the one and despise the other. You are not able to serve God and money”

Because if they will work for money when they are supposed to be doing His work, they have put money first. Will Jesus people die of starvation and get sick and die from cold weather with not shelter? Yes. It's about not putting money before Jesus, it not about not being able to afford a meal.

Now lets suppoed that I am wrong and Jesus wants everyone to be homeless and starving, my view and walk right or wrong does not change the fact Jesus is the one to obey. You are trying to use a man's personal decisions to nullify Jesus words. That is wrong.

Again it is about not putting money before Jesus and not letting the cars of the world choke out His mission for His people:

Matthew 6:24-34, " 24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money. 25 “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 “Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

Jesus is the way

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

John 12:48-50, " 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

my goodness. someone answer these now fast. go go go. please tell me whats going on someone
do you know whats going on are u trying ot make a point get to conclusion now @FollowtheShepherd

Iam a firm believer in Jesus and some of the things I have been told about Hesus words are no more and Paul has the true gospel then verses I was given made me want to really study the topic, I am interested to continue to learn about this and everything in the word.

My bottom line is:

2 John 1:9-11, " 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

Duet 18:18-18
Acts 3:22-23
John 12:48

the teaching of Christ

 

[Absolutely]

That is odd because have you not been saying differently that past days? Ahh ok you say it in the next post.



So if



Does notthe fact that there are things that can only be found in Paul's writings mean you believe he taught different?

Also have you not been saying that the disciples of Jesus were sent to Jews and Paul was sent to gentils?

These are some of the reasons I wanted to start this topic and work these ideas out to find a conclusion.

Here is the thing.
Some of what the hp's say is true.
It is the blatantly false items that are heretical.
I can even go along wit the gospel Presentation to jews is different. Same gospel,but with the starting place in the messiah,where as with gentiles i would start with adam.
Jews = messiah has come. Jesus

Gentiles = you need a savior. Jesus.

What did Jesus preach = I came to save you. Salvation by me.

What did the apostles preach = salvation by Jesus.

One theme. Man sinned. Separation and death,eternally lost.

One remedy = innocent blood.

Only innocent blood could save.
Jesus was the sacrifice.

It aint "paul vs the rest of the bible"
The bible is one book.
God's book to us.
Not paul vs this and that

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Jesus and Paul preached the same gospel: though sometimes with different emphases . Paul said things Jesus never directly said: but Jesus laid the foundation for all that came after Him.

What about the Sermon on the Mount? Was this intended for us to literally follow? or was it given to the Jews only? Or is it for a future age?

I believe at the time Jesus preached mainly to Jews and by His own words He wanted His disciples to carry EXACTY what He taught to all nations:

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Also I wouldn't say Paul taught exactly the same as Jesus:

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

Philippians 3:17-18, “Join together in imitating me (Paul), brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you. For I have often told you, and now tell you even with tears, that many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.”

Also I wouldn't say Paul taught exactly the same as the chosen disciples of Jesus:

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”

1 John 2:6, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”

2 Timothy 1:13-15, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me (Paul), in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.”

 

[Absolutely]

During His walk on earth Jesus said: "sell that ye have and give alms". Have you already sold all your property and given the money to the poor?

Paul shaved his head and took a vow.
Have you done that?

See how easy it is to misalign things?

 

[Absolutely]

According to Jesus (prior to his ascension) it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone rich to enter heaven.

According to Paul (the risen Christ's spokesman) it is OK to be rich provided you are generous and not arrogant.

Clever.
"Prior to his ascention"

(So as to give room to reply about Jesus teaching Paul exclusively outside anyone else)

Old Jesus being enlightened by paul who was enlightened by new improved Jesus.

Thank God i will never have to unlearn such convoluted hogwash

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Here is the thing.
Some of what the hp's say is true.
It is the blatantly false items that are heretical.
I can even go along wit the gospel Presentation to jews is different. Same gospel,but with the starting place in the messiah,where as with gentiles i would start with adam.
Jews = messiah has come. Jesus

Gentiles = you need a savior. Jesus.

What did Jesus preach = I came to save you. Salvation by me.

What did the apostles preach = salvation by Jesus.

One theme. Man sinned. Separation and death,eternally lost.

One remedy = innocent blood.

Only innocent blood could save.
Jesus was the sacrifice.

It aint "paul vs the rest of the bible"
The bible is one book.
God's book to us.
Not paul vs this and that

Do you see this as a contradiction or can you explain to me why it is not, because honestly I see a problem here:

Romans 4:5, "And to him who is not working but believes on Him who is declaring right the wicked, his belief is reckoned for righteousness,"

Proverbs 17:15, “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord."

I see a problem here:

Galatians 6:5, “For every man shall bear his own burden.”

1 Peter 5:6-7, “Humble yourselves, then, under the mighty hand of God, so that He exalts you in due time, casting all your worry upon Him, for He is concerned about you.”

I see a problem here:

2 Corinthians 8:21, “for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.”

Romans 12:17, “Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.”

Luke 16:15, "So he told them, “You try to justify yourselves in front of people, but God knows your hearts, because what is highly valued by people is detestable to God."

 

[PennEd]

People need to ask themselves and others.

What is the Gospel unto Salvation?

 

[Absolutely]

Do you see this as a contradiction or can you explain to me why it is not, because honestly I see a problem here:

Romans 4:5, "And to him who is not working but believes on Him who is declaring right the wicked, his belief is reckoned for righteousness,"

Proverbs 17:15, “He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the righteous, both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord."

I see a problem here:

Galatians 6:5, “For every man shall bear his own burden.”

1 Peter 5:6-7, “Humble yourselves, then, under the mighty hand of God, so that He exalts you in due time, casting all your worry upon Him, for He is concerned about you.”

I see a problem here:

2 Corinthians 8:21, “for we aim at what is honorable not only in the Lord's sight but also in the sight of men.”

Romans 12:17, “Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all men.”

Luke 16:15, "So he told them, “You try to justify yourselves in front of people, but God knows your hearts, because what is highly valued by people is detestable to God."

I have zero idea what you are saying

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Paul shaved his head and took a vow.
Have you done that?

See how easy it is to misalign things?

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you (Paul), yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Why did many think Paul taught against the law, and why do the vast majority of people today use Paul to say the law is gone/done away/not to be followed in some form or another. Did Paul teach against the law?

Romans

The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians

The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians

The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19,

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians

Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians

Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

 

[Melach]

Well as Peter said in the Ephesus trial of Paul recorded in history by an Ebionite writing, we can not comfirm or deny if Jesus appeared to him" Now no matter if that is even fully accurate or not, this does matter:

If people knew and applied the word it would help, one can not testify on their own behalf to SETTLE a case or prove a fact. 2 or more witnesses are needed.

John 5:31-32, “If I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is not trustworthy. There is another who testifies about me, and I know that the testimony he gives about me is true.”

Paul is the only one that calls himself an apostle/disciple, 2 Peter calls him a brother and is in line with what the Ebionite writings say about Paul's trial in Ephesusand he himself eludes to:

2 Timothy 4:14-17,14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will pay him back for what he did."15 You, too, must watch out for him, for he violently opposed our message."16 At my first trial no one came to my defense. Everyone abandoned me. May it not be held against them!"17 However, the Lord stood by me and gave me strength so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the gentiles could hear it. I was rescued out of a lion’s mouth."

2 Timothy 1:15-18,15 You know that everyone in Asia has abandoned me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes."16 May the Lord grant mercy to the family of Onesiphorus, for he often took care of me and was not ashamed that I was a prisoner."17 Instead, when he arrived in Rome he searched diligently for me and found me."18 May the Lord grant that he finds mercy on the day he comes again. You know very well how much he assisted me in Ephesus."

Interesting this Ephesus is in Asia.

Revelation 1:10-11, " 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send [it] unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

"which are in Asia; unto Ephesus"

Acts 19:1,8-9, “1, It was while Apollos was in Corinth that Paul passed through the inland districts and came to Ephesus. He found a few disciples there 8, "He went into the synagogue and spoke there boldly for three months, holding discussions and persuading those who heard him about the kingdom of God. 9, "But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them, taking his disciples away with him, and held daily discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus.”

"came to Ephesus...But when some people became stubborn, refused to believe, and slandered the Way in front of the people, Paul left them"

Revelation 2:1-3, " 1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands. 2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. 3 I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary.

To me it is worth investigation when people are telling me Jesus words are no more and another speaks in Jesus place now.

are you saying st.paul was false apostle? if thats the case why is he in the bible? and if it wasnt for st.paul we wouldnt even know what happen to people who are alive when Jesus returns. he says we are transformed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye. if thats not in the bible we dont even know that.

why wouldnt God protect the bible from having false apostles in its pages? that looks far fetched. st.peter said that many people misunderstand brother paul and wrest his writings