Not By Works

[Macabeus]

You know....the well analogy above......If I am stuck in a well and someone throws me a rope if I just stand and look at it I will never be pulled out of the well right?

FROM FAITH TO FAITH the bible states....!!

Think on that a bit!

Not a good analogy. You weren’t strong enough to hold the rope. Jesus came down and carried you out when you called Him. And you were not in a well, you were in a pit of spiritual deadness until you saw the Light of Life. That is what saves you. When you saw the light you believed. You did not see the light because you believed

Your theology is backwards and upside down

The people who sat in the region of death have seen a great light, and to them who sat under the shadow of death, a lLight has dawned

 

[Lightskin]

I am not sayind faith is not necessary. I am saying the saving power is not in the faith, but in the one in whom we trust

This is REALLY elementary stuff here

And yet you asked the question of percentages.

 

[Melach]

Not a good analogy. You weren’t strong enough to hold the rope. Jesus came down and carried you out when you called Him. And you were not in a well, you were in a pit of spiritual deadness

thats the calvinist thing. dead in sins and trespasses so you are in the bottom of well cant even respond yes to gospel
thats so ridicilous because if anyone has ever been in the ocean and someone throws you a rescue rope and you grab it they take you to boat or helicopter nobody would say and brag "and i took the rope i saved myself" but calvinist argue this way.

they say its boasting to say i put faith in Jesus. i can go to the bema seat and brag i was so smart to accept Jesus and my neighbor did it. who does that?

just more philosophy its all calvinism is and im sick of it to the core. they change evangelize to debates and intellectual you know what. just sitting around defending their philosophy so much.

i want everyone to stop believing in calvinism because i think you destroy people if you preach it. most people walking the earth say you are worshiping evil god who decrees all evil things i will never worship it. they are destroying gospel. thats why i hate calvinism so much.

i still think they can be saved but i just hate the doctrine really much. my pet peeve.

im not sure macabeus you say you arent calvinist but sure sound like it. you speak both sides of mouth i think i say that with friendlyiness and respect. not to insult but really, you believe all these calvinist doctrines but say you arent calvinist and its all by faith throghu grace which is it?

 

[Macabeus]

Faith alone does not save. God saves by Grace through faith.

The disciples asked “ who then can be saved”

Jesus replied “ with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible

This was in context of the fact that men do not want to come to Christ, because by nature they are incurable idolaters. Incurable by anything they can do, that is. But curable by Gods Grace

 

[Macabeus]

thats the calvinist thing. dead in sins and trespasses so you are in the bottom of well cant even respond yes to gospel
thats so ridicilous because if anyone has ever been in the ocean and someone throws you a rescue rope and you grab it they take you to boat or helicopter nobody would say and brag "and i took the rope i saved myself" but calvinist argue this way.

they say its boasting to say i put faith in Jesus. i can go to the bema seat and brag i was so smart to accept Jesus and my neighbor did it. who does that?

just more philosophy its all calvinism is and im sick of it to the core. they change evangelize to debates and intellectual you know what. just sitting around defending their philosophy so much.

i want everyone to stop believing in calvinism because i think you destroy people if you preach it. most people walking the earth say you are worshiping evil god who decrees all evil things i will never worship it. they are destroying gospel. thats why i hate calvinism so much.

i still think they can be saved but i just hate the doctrine really much. my pet peeve.

im not sure macabeus you say you arent calvinist but sure sound like it. you speak both sides of mouth i think i say that with friendlyiness and respect. not to insult but really, you believe all these calvinist doctrines but say you arent calvinist and its all by faith throghu grace which is it?

I never said you can’t respond to the gospel. But really you can’t unless God draws you. Read John 6

I’m not a Calvinist, and what I said wasnt Calvinism. Every theological perspective except liberals and I liberal, modern Arminians believe it the way I put it

Sometimes anti Calvinism paranoia causes us to swing to the opposite extreme. I used to be a hard core Arminian. Now I know that neither side has it altogether right

Can I ask you what church do you worship with? Non denominational or denominational?

 

[Macabeus]

You contradict yourself and scripture on every turn.....you have a lot to unlearn and then relearn to be correct.....and you wonder why I have always believed that at the root you peddle a self saving dogma that you must maintain....exactly why I laid into you when you first joined

Waiting for an instance where I contradicted myself, sir. This is what I am going to say every time you reply to me until you present the “smoking gun”.

 

[Macabeus]

Waiting for an instance where I contradicted myself, sir. This is what I am going to say every time you reply to me until you present the “smoking gun”.

Wait. You will hear crickets chirping.

 

[Macabeus]

Waiting for an instance where I contradicted myself, sir. This is what I am going to say every time you reply to me until you present the “smoking gun”.

Come on @Dc. You said I contradict myself at every turn. So it shouldn’t be hard to produce an instance

Or where you just doing a “turtle shell” accusation like you always do.

You always accuse, but can’t supply documentation that your accusations are true.

Bad look, Maestro

 

[Macabeus]

Come on @Dc. You said I contradict myself at every turn. So it shouldn’t be hard to produce an instance

Or where you just doing a “turtle shell” accusation like you always do.

You always accuse, but can’t supply documentation that your accusations are true.

Bad look, Maestro

If you don’t produce an instance proving I contradict myself, it says to me that you can’t because it’s not there.

 

[Macabeus]

If you don’t produce an instance proving I contradict myself, it says to me that you can’t because it’s not there.

Chirp, chirp, chirp. The crickets sound lovely today

 

[Macabeus]

@dcontroversal

If you don’t produce an instance proving I contradict myself, it says to me that you can’t because it’s not there

Just making stuff up on the fly

Ps. To all concerned. I did not attack DC. I am responding to his attack that I contradict myself. When I wasn’t even speaking to him

 

[VCO]

I never said you can’t respond to the gospel. But really you can’t unless God draws you. Read John 6

I’m not a Calvinist, and what I said wasnt Calvinism. Every theological perspective except liberals and I liberal, modern Arminians believe it the way I put it

Sometimes anti Calvinism paranoia causes us to swing to the opposite extreme. I used to be a hard core Arminian. Now I know that neither side has it altogether right

Can I ask you what church do you worship with? Non denominational or denominational?

I only believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism, so the Calvinists will not claim me.

AND

The Armenians SURE do not want to claim me, because I believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism.


I GUESS they can only call me a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.

 

[Macabeus]

I only believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism, so the Calvinists will not claim me.

AND

The Armenians SURE do not want to claim me, because I believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism.


I GUESS they can only call me a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.

Amen, bro. I agree fully.

What three points do you agree with?

Perserverance I would imagine

What’s the other two?

Just out of curiosity.

 

[VCO]

I thought we evangelicals BURIED that argument between the Calvinists and Armenians back in the early 80's.

Who keeps digging that smelly thing up ? ? ?

 

[Macabeus]

I only believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism, so the Calvinists will not claim me.

AND

The Armenians SURE do not want to claim me, because I believe in 3 of the 5 points of Calvinism.


I GUESS they can only call me a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN.

I do agree with some points of Calvinism and some points
Of classical Arminianism. There are also soteriological points that those two groups share as well

I am closer to holding the views of Classical Arminianism, except I have grown to except the doctrine of perserverance

I used to be a hard core Arminian. I have gradually and am still gradually moving more and more away from that position.

 

[Macabeus]

I thought we evangelicals BURIED that argument between the Calvinists and Armenians back in the early 80's.

Who keeps digging that smelly thing up ? ? ?

It’s buried with me, but aren’t you the one who said you believe three points of TULIP? You simply aroused my curiosity

And I didn’t bring up Calvinism, Melach did

 

[Macabeus]

I thought we evangelicals BURIED that argument between the Calvinists and Armenians back in the early 80's.

Who keeps digging that smelly thing up ? ? ?

Not me. Someone else brought it up

But with some( not me) the argument is very much alive. Too bad, because the truth is somewhere in between the two positions, IMO

It’s funny. Because Arminians I talk to think I’m a Calvinist and Calvinists think I’m an arminian probably because I’m somewhere in between.

 

[PS]

chicken came first God created chicken not egg.

i see big problem in calvinism cause i investigated it and it makes everything just meaningless. God really doesnt want all to be saved, just all kinds of people. they change the bible to fit tulip. they are only christian group i know who believes everything is predestinated. next time something bad happen dont say time and chance happeneth to all but say God predestinated this too to take place. but i wont want to get into calvinist debate i will never accept that teaching i already studied it and believed it was wrong and makes God worse than devil. who needs devil when you have god of calvinism?

Yes, it needs a chicken to lay the egg, so the chicken had to come first.

The thing about predestination, is that salvation is for everyone who believes. Trouble is only a few believe, point being God knows from the foundation of the earth who those people will be.

All are chosen, but few there be who follow. The choice is theirs, THEY made the right choice the same as we have, but they get a big head thinking they are better than everyone else which is not true.

 

[VCO]

Not me. Someone else brought it up

But with some( not me) the argument is very much alive. Too bad, because the truth is somewhere in between the two positions, IMO

It’s funny. Because Arminians I talk to think I’m a Calvinist and Calvinists think I’m an arminian probably because I’m somewhere in between.

NO, that makes you an evangelical Christian like me. THAT ARGUMENT stinks and is repulsive, why do they insist on digging it up.

 

[Macabeus]

Yes, it needs a chicken to lay the egg, so the chicken had to come first.

The thing about predestination, is that salvation is for everyone who believes. Trouble is only a few believe, point being God knows from the foundation of the earth who those people will be.

All are chosen, but few there be who follow. The choice is theirs, THEY made the right choice the same as we have, but they get a big head thinking they are better than everyone else which is not true.

Yes, salvation is not a reason to get a big head. I believe we are saved when we believe, but God’s grace is operating, drawing us before we believe. You could call it prevenient (going before) grace, but I’m not sure I believe in the full definition given to prevenient grace. So I call it preceding grace, ie the grace that comes before our faith which draws us powerfully to faith

Again, I also believe that this grace can be resisted