Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Loving others is an extremely important commandment yet all too often your condescending comments fail to display any love. That’s why you receive grief. That said, I hope and pray your knee gets better. That’s coming from a guy who knows full well what knee problems are all about.
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Have you possibly presented these "backwards," so to speak (i.e. reversed)? :
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/7-12.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/7-12.htm
My walk righteous or sinful has no effect on the validity of the commands/law
and not all has been fulfilled. Jesus 2nd coming is not YET complete.
Also you are ignoring "unless heaven and earth pass"
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
and not all has been fulfilled. Jesus 2nd coming is not YET complete.
Also you are ignoring "unless heaven and earth pass"
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
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Thank you, yes I mixed up the number when typing it. My point stands, but that Jesus is now the high priest and mediation of the law is under His priesthood
as the Levitical priesthood is abolished,
Hebrews 7:23-25, " 23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
yet the law remains:
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
as the Levitical priesthood is abolished,
Hebrews 7:23-25, " 23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.
yet the law remains:
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
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Oh is that what He meant? Then wy did He say:
"until heaven and earth pass away"
and
"it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void"
Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Also all is not yet fulfilled, as I said before Jesus 2nd coming still remains.
He said ALL fulfilled, not half.
1st coming = fulfilled
2nd coming = still future, unfulfilled.
"until heaven and earth pass away"
and
"it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void"
Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Also all is not yet fulfilled, as I said before Jesus 2nd coming still remains.
He said ALL fulfilled, not half.
1st coming = fulfilled
2nd coming = still future, unfulfilled.
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Well I will give you the reason, I then ask you assessment.
Here is Jesus reading;
Luke 4:17-21, " 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” 20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”
Here is what He read; what is fulfilled in green, what is not in red;
Isaiah 61:1-11, " 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3 to grant to those who mourn in Zion— to give them a beautiful headdress instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit; that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified. 4 They shall build up the ancient ruins; they shall raise up the former devastations; they shall repair the ruined cities, the devastations of many generations. 5 Strangers shall stand and tend your flocks; foreigners shall be your plowmen and vinedressers; 6 but you shall be called the priests of the LORD; they shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory you shall boast. 7 Instead of your shame there shall be a double portion; instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their lot; therefore in their land they shall possess a double portion; they shall have everlasting joy. 8 For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and wrong; I will faithfully give them their recompense, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 Their offspring shall be known among the nations, and their descendants in the midst of the peoples; all who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are an offspring the LORD has blessed. 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD; my soul shall exult in my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth brings forth its sprouts, and as a garden causes what is sown in it to sprout up, so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to sprout up before all the nations."
The part in red talks about His second coming.
"the day of vengeance of our God"
"the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified"
" you shall be called the priests of the LORD; they shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory you shall boast. 7 Instead of your shame there shall be a double portion; instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their lot; therefore in their land they shall possess a double portion; they shall have everlasting joy"
All is not yet fulfilled. It will be, but it is not yet.
Here is Jesus reading;
Luke 4:17-21, " 17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written, 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” 20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. 21 And he began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.”
Here is what He read; what is fulfilled in green, what is not in red;
Isaiah 61:1-11, " 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good news to the poor; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3 to grant to those who mourn in Zion— to give them a beautiful headdress instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit; that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified. 4 They shall build up the ancient ruins; they shall raise up the former devastations; they shall repair the ruined cities, the devastations of many generations. 5 Strangers shall stand and tend your flocks; foreigners shall be your plowmen and vinedressers; 6 but you shall be called the priests of the LORD; they shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory you shall boast. 7 Instead of your shame there shall be a double portion; instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their lot; therefore in their land they shall possess a double portion; they shall have everlasting joy. 8 For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and wrong; I will faithfully give them their recompense, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. 9 Their offspring shall be known among the nations, and their descendants in the midst of the peoples; all who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are an offspring the LORD has blessed. 10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD; my soul shall exult in my God, for he has clothed me with the garments of salvation; he has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself like a priest with a beautiful headdress, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. 11 For as the earth brings forth its sprouts, and as a garden causes what is sown in it to sprout up, so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to sprout up before all the nations."
The part in red talks about His second coming.
"the day of vengeance of our God"
"the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified"
" you shall be called the priests of the LORD; they shall speak of you as the ministers of our God; you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their glory you shall boast. 7 Instead of your shame there shall be a double portion; instead of dishonor they shall rejoice in their lot; therefore in their land they shall possess a double portion; they shall have everlasting joy"
All is not yet fulfilled. It will be, but it is not yet.
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I dont think this principle proves anything except that not all has been fulfilled. WHat do you think about what I presented concenring if all is currently fulfilled or not?
The Paul issue is different than what I am saying here. We can go on to that issue. May we complete this part before we move on? I honestly want your view of what I presented.
The Paul issue is different than what I am saying here. We can go on to that issue. May we complete this part before we move on? I honestly want your view of what I presented.
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E
I need time to read all that. Today is the Lord's Supper in my church and now I'm getting ready for it (we are not Sabbatarians).
Again I suggest you read on Google Books the following book:
Jesus' Words Only Or Was Paul The Apostle Jesus Condemned in Revelations 2?
The author says the differences between Jesus and Paul have been questioned since Marcion. Even though I disagree with the author I will read it, when I have time, because it contains a lot of useful information.
Again I suggest you read on Google Books the following book:
Jesus' Words Only Or Was Paul The Apostle Jesus Condemned in Revelations 2?
The author says the differences between Jesus and Paul have been questioned since Marcion. Even though I disagree with the author I will read it, when I have time, because it contains a lot of useful information.
No hurry, it's something I myself spent a lot of time on, I think thats the best way, prayer and study. Enjoy the fellowship and man Jesus really did offer Himself, so it's really a humbling thing the Lord's supper. Also yes I have studies Marcion he was crazy IMO. and the Paul issue is something I had fully studied out before I read others views, but I have since seen others views etc. However not much I have seen really showed me anything I had not already found by myself. With that said somethings I did find were stuff In joshphus and history, but again my findings are based in the word, everything else is supplemental. Thank you for being honest and may God guide us!
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Brother YahshuaThis is for you; ! Psalms 95:1-3, " 1 Oh come, let us sing to the LORD; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation! 2 Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise! 3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods."
This is why the "dividing of the spoils" doctrine is taught. People say there is a different way for Jew than Gentiles, thus Paul being a Jew (Benjamite) had to follow that harsh mean law and the Gentiles are fre to kill, steal, etc. Nonsense. There is one way. One flock one shepherd.
Paul does seem to teach a dividing of the spoils (Gen 49:27) to some degree:
Galatians 2:9-10, " 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
This contradicts Peter and Jesus:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
Yet Jesus sent the disciples to all people:
Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
This is why the "dividing of the spoils" doctrine is taught. People say there is a different way for Jew than Gentiles, thus Paul being a Jew (Benjamite) had to follow that harsh mean law and the Gentiles are fre to kill, steal, etc. Nonsense. There is one way. One flock one shepherd.
Paul does seem to teach a dividing of the spoils (Gen 49:27) to some degree:
Galatians 2:9-10, " 9 and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. 10 Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.
This contradicts Peter and Jesus:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
Yet Jesus sent the disciples to all people:
Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
If you have Rest in Christ and you DON'T work at the law you are going to get accused of teaching against the law, even though Christianity is NOT against the Law of Moses.
Acts 24:14-16
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
Legalists will still accuse. Even though they themselves are hypocrites.
Acts 24:14-16
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
Legalists will still accuse. Even though they themselves are hypocrites.
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