Are demons and fallen angels the same thing? Where'd they come from?

[Hevosmies]

YO! This is an interesting topic. I got the idea from brother @Macabeus telling me that demons are fallen angels, LETS discuss it:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

As we can see from them verses, its past tense, God already delivered them (The fallen angels) to CHAINS OF DARKNESS to be reserved for judgment. YET we see in the New testament and in the world around us that DEMONS are active. How can this be if they are in CHAINS?

That leads me (and many others) to believe that the demons are actually spirits of the dead nephilim (giant hybrids) that died in the flood! Of course we got no proof, JUST AN ASSERTION. But it makes sense because how else can demons be active while in chains of darkness? IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD BIBLICAL CASE TO BE MADE, lets hear it!

 

[KJV1611]

YO! This is an interesting topic. I got the idea from brother @Macabeus telling me that demons are fallen angels, LETS discuss it:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

As we can see from them verses, its past tense, God already delivered them (The fallen angels) to CHAINS OF DARKNESS to be reserved for judgment. YET we see in the New testament and in the world around us that DEMONS are active. How can this be if they are in CHAINS?

That leads me (and many others) to believe that the demons are actually spirits of the dead nephilim (giant hybrids) that died in the flood! Of course we got no proof, JUST AN ASSERTION. But it makes sense because how else can demons be active while in chains of darkness? IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD BIBLICAL CASE TO BE MADE, lets hear it!

The KJV doesn't use the word demon so I'm assuming the equivalent of demons is devils.
I did a search on devil* and the searched returned 117 but only 4 mentions are found in the Old Testament.

Any idea on why there was basically no mention of them in Old Testament?

 

[Hevosmies]

The KJV doesn't use the word demon so I'm assuming the equivalent of demons is devils.
I did a search on devil* and the searched returned 117 but only 4 mentions are found in the Old Testament.

Any idea on why there was basically no mention of them in Old Testament?

Yeah KJV equivelant is devils.

Perhaps its mentioned less in the OT because it speaks about "evil spirits" or just mentions falsegods by name like baal and stuff. So obviously the priests of baal were rid with demons(devils,unclean spirits) but it isnt specifically mentioned!

The New Testament mentions it a lot because it was part of Jesus' ministry to CAST out devils from people!

 

[KJV1611]

Jdg_9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Sa_16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

1Sa_16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

1Sa_16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

1Sa_16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

1Sa_18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1Sa_19:9 And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

Don't if this helps or not but every time evil spirit was used in the Old Testament, it was SENT BY GOD.
The thing that stands out to me is that the evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem doesn't sound like a "ghost" spirit, it sounds more like God sent dissension between them.

I wonder if that's the case with Saul too.

 

[garee]

YO! This is an interesting topic. I got the idea from brother @Macabeus telling me that demons are fallen angels, LETS discuss it:

Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

As we can see from them verses, its past tense, God already delivered them (The fallen angels) to CHAINS OF DARKNESS to be reserved for judgment. YET we see in the New testament and in the world around us that DEMONS are active. How can this be if they are in CHAINS?

That leads me (and many others) to believe that the demons are actually spirits of the dead nephilim (giant hybrids) that died in the flood! Of course we got no proof, JUST AN ASSERTION. But it makes sense because how else can demons be active while in chains of darkness? IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD BIBLICAL CASE TO BE MADE, lets hear it!

That could make sense if we believed taller people become gods in the likeness of men.

Sons of God is used in two ways. One to represent unseen ministering spirits as angels. . . both clean in respect to those who are led by the Spirit of God and unclean those led by the spirit of error. . The key is in who they are led by.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Also the description mighty men which were of old, men of renown are speaking of sanits.

The heart of man had become evil constantly .No faith that comes from hearing God.

In order to reserve the seed of Christ fullifed in jesus .God destoyed the whole and started with the family of Noah . It simply is teaching what hapens when mankind is unevely yoked. Daghter of men speak of unbelivers

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.And God saw that the wickedness of man (not giants) was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.geneisis 4-5

 

[KJV1611]

That could make sense if we believed taller people become gods in the likeness of men.

Sons of God is used in two ways. One to represent unseen ministering spirits as angels. . . both clean in respect to those who are led by the Spirit of God and unclean those led by the spirit of error. . The key is in who they are led by.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Also the description mighty men which were of old, men of renown are speaking of sanits.

The heart of man had become evil constantly .No faith that comes from hearing God.

In order to reserve the seed of Christ fullifed in jesus .God destoyed the whole and started with the family of Noah . It simply is teaching what hapens when mankind is unevely yoked. Daghter of men speak of unbelivers

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.And God saw that the wickedness of man (not giants) was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.geneisis 4-5

Num 13:32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Does those giants sound like saints Garee?

 

[Deade]

That leads me (and many others) to believe that the demons are actually spirits of the dead nephilim (giant hybrids) that died in the flood! Of course we got no proof, JUST AN ASSERTION. But it makes sense because how else can demons be active while in chains of darkness? IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD BIBLICAL CASE TO BE MADE, lets hear it!

There are no spirits from dead human or giants anywhere. They are all asleep. Demons are the one third fallen angels. They sometimes pretend to be dead people to confuse us.

 

[KJV1611]

There are no spirits from dead human or giants anywhere. They are all asleep. Demons are the one third fallen angels. They sometimes pretend to be dead people to confuse us.

What about the rich man in torment asking for water to be dropped on his tongue?

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Deade]

What about the rich man in torment asking for water to be dropped on his tongue?

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

A parable!

 

[Macabeus]

There are no spirits from dead human or giants anywhere. They are all asleep. Demons are the one third fallen angels. They sometimes pretend to be dead people to confuse us.

, ,

I agree about who you say the angels are. I do not believe in soul sleep


. Revelation 12:4 says the dragon ( (satan) cast one third of the stars from the sky. Angels are symbolically refereed to as stars in the Bible. Job 38:7, Rev 9:1,

 

[KJV1611]

A parable!

What about these spirits in the prison?

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

 

[PERFECTION]

To understand the truth of this issue you must first lay some ground work.
No 1: Angles are NOT free will agents. They are NOT created in the image of God as are men.(men refers to man and women)
No 2: Fallen angles and demons are two completely different beings.
No 3: Fallen angles are NOT allowed to interfere with the redemption of mankind.
No 4: Angles, if they disobey God are NOT allowed a path of redemption. Because they are not freewill agents.
No 5: Satin and his demons were NEVER agents of good.
No 6: Demons and Satin are, or were, created to serve in what ever path God commands.
No 7: If it were true that satin presented an out of control problem for God then God would just simply command him into oblivion.
No 8: Just because Christian do not take authority over satin and his demons does NOT mean they do not have that authority. They do.

Spiritual authority in the church today can be compared to the beggar who spent his time on the street asking for quarters.
Then one day this beggar was informed that He had inherited a fortune. So this beggar went to the bank,with all this fortune before him,
goes up to the teller and requested if he might have a quarter.

We as the church are rich in authority but we still beg for what we already have.This problem can be laid at the feet of men and women who profess to be called by God to lead but themselves are blind.

 

[KJV1611]

To understand the truth of this issue you must first lay some ground work.
No 1: Angles are NOT free will agents. They are NOT created in the image of God as are men.(men refers to man and women)
No 2: Fallen angles and demons are two completely different beings.
No 3: Fallen angles are NOT allowed to interfere with the redemption of mankind.
No 4: Angles, if they disobey God are NOT allowed a path of redemption. Because they are not freewill agents.
No 5: Satin and his demons were NEVER agents of good.
No 6: Demons and Satin are, or were, created to serve in what ever path God commands.
No 7: If it were true that satin presented an out of control problem for God then God would just simply command him into oblivion.
No 8: Just because Christian do not take authority over satin and his demons does NOT mean they do not have that authority. They do.

Spiritual authority in the church today can be compared to the beggar who spent his time on the street asking for quarters.
Then one day this beggar was informed that He had inherited a fortune. So this beggar went to the bank,with all this fortune before him,
goes up to the teller and requested if he might have a quarter.

We as the church are rich in authority but we still beg for what we already have.This problem can be laid at the feet of men and women who profess to be called by God to lead but themselves are blind.

I pretty much agree with all of that. How did you determine that fallen angels aren't demons?

 

[Hevosmies]

There are no spirits from dead human or giants anywhere. They are all asleep. Demons are the one third fallen angels. They sometimes pretend to be dead people to confuse us.

I talked about that. BUT they are IN CHAINS currently, the fallen angels. So how can they be HERE on earth now too?

 

[Deade]

I talked about that. BUT they are IN CHAINS currently, the fallen angels. So how can they be HERE on earth now too?

It says just some are in chains but not all. Most are still around doing their dirty work.

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

 

[Hevosmies]

It says just some are in chains but not all. Most are still around doing their dirty work.

Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Wouldn't that verse incldue ALL the disobedient ones, not just some, cause it says in 2Peter 2:4 angels that SINNED, that would include all of the third who rebelled!

 

[Deade]

Wouldn't that verse incldue ALL the disobedient ones, not just some, cause it says in 2Peter 2:4 angels that SINNED, that would include all of the third who rebelled!

I don't know for sure. I am not an authority on what we call angels. There are two schools of thought: 1.) The chains of darkness are here on earth; we know they were cast down to here. 2.) Just some of them are chained up.

All I know is they are all around us, throwing their fiery darts at us. Which we quench with our shield of faith, hopefully soaked with our prayers.

 

[Hevosmies]

I don't know for sure. I am not an authority on what we call angels. There are two schools of thought: 1.) The chains of darkness are here on earth; we know they were cast down to here. 2.) Just some of them are chained up.

All I know is they are all around us, throwing their fiery darts at us. Which we quench with our shield of faith, hopefully soaked with our prayers.

Wait, this earth is hell? depths? Well this place DOES SUCK, but not sure if its HELL? The verse says those chains of darkness are in HELL(Tartarus)

 

[Macabeus]

[

To understand the truth of this issue you must first lay some ground work.
No 1: Angles are NOT free will agents. They are NOT created in the image of God as are men.(men refers to man and women)
No 2: Fallen angles and demons are two completely different beings.
No 3: Fallen angles are NOT allowed to interfere with the redemption of mankind.
No 4: Angles, if they disobey God are NOT allowed a path of redemption. Because they are not freewill agents.
No 5: Satin and his demons were NEVER agents of good.
No 6: Demons and Satin are, or were, created to serve in what ever path God commands.
No 7: If it were true that satin presented an out of control problem for God then God would just simply command him into oblivion.
No 8: Just because Christian do not take authority over satin and his demons does NOT mean they do not have that authority. They do.

Spiritual authority in the church today can be compared to the beggar who spent his time on the street asking for quarters.
Then one day this beggar was informed that He had inherited a fortune. So this beggar went to the bank,with all this fortune before him,
goes up to the teller and requested if he might have a quarter.

We as the church are rich in authority but we still beg for what we already have.This problem can be laid at the feet of men and women who profess to be called by God to lead but themselves are blind.

There are a few things I disagree with in this post. For example, how do angels disobey if they are not free. That would mean that their disobedience determined (by God?). I can’t accept that

Secondly, You said demons and satan were never agents of good. I believe all things that God created are good. I do not believe God created evil beings. They were created good until sin was found in them. Just like man

Thirdly, you said that they serve in whatever way God ordains. This is right and wrong in a sense. God never causes or creates sin, but He can use rebellious creatures to fulfill a purpose, but at the same time they are held responsible because of thei evil intention

Examples of the last point. Joseph’s brothers in Genesis, the Assyrians and Babylonians, who were Gods rod of correction, but were judged for their evil intent, Herod, Pilate, and everyone who crucified Jesus. Their actions were evil, and they were held accountable for them, but God even used them to fulfill a deeper purpose, although He did not cause them to sin, because God does not create moral evil

 

[Deade]

To understand the truth of this issue you must first lay some ground work.
No 1: Angles are NOT free will agents. They are NOT created in the image of God as are men.(men refers to man and women)
No 2: Fallen angles and demons are two completely different beings.
No 3: Fallen angles are NOT allowed to interfere with the redemption of mankind.
No 4: Angles, if they disobey God are NOT allowed a path of redemption. Because they are not freewill agents.
No 5: Satin and his demons were NEVER agents of good.
No 6: Demons and Satin are, or were, created to serve in what ever path God commands.
No 7: If it were true that satin presented an out of control problem for God then God would just simply command him into oblivion.
No 8: Just because Christian do not take authority over satin and his demons does NOT mean they do not have that authority. They do.

Spiritual authority in the church today can be compared to the beggar who spent his time on the street asking for quarters.
Then one day this beggar was informed that He had inherited a fortune. So this beggar went to the bank,with all this fortune before him,
goes up to the teller and requested if he might have a quarter.

We as the church are rich in authority but we still beg for what we already have.This problem can be laid at the feet of men and women who profess to be called by God to lead but themselves are blind.

You point number 8 make a little sense, the rest is all nonsensical. Well number 6 was true at some point and, overall, still applies. If you are saying the church is crippled and not where it should be, you are right there also.