Abomination of Desolation

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah are you expecting people to come out of the ground during the mythological “Seven Year Tribulation”?

Give it up

1. Tribulation is 3.5 years
2. I expect there to be such great suffering on earth that nothing has been like it before or after

Trust me you have no clue what happened back then because every verse in the Old Testament that talks about it, you think is going to happen in the mythological great tribulation.

Trust me, you have no clue what happened if you think it even came close to resembling both world wars of the last century

 

[Shekinahglory]

What is the abomination of Desolation? I would truly like to hear from you.

hi I would like to take a shot at this. Unlike most believers I believe there is a trinity of evil just as there is a trinity of Holiness. Each trinity consists of a father son and spirit. Each person in the evil trinity not only opposes their counterfeit they counterfeit them as well. We know where the Holy Trinity is the problem we don't know the trinity of evil. Satan the father is in heaven, ain't that wild, where he accuses the brethren day and night before God the Father. The one known as beast number 2 is anti-Christ and when he comes he will counterfeit the Christ. Think about if you were at the temple and someone came along claiming to be Messiah what criteria would he have to meet? The same criteria Christ filled, born in Bethlehem, Jewish and all the rest. But even this might not be enough but we will have to come back to this we have someone else wanting to meet folks. The false prophet not much said about him but what is will blow your mind. This beast could be called the unholy spirit. He is in the world now as is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes Christ known and the false prophet, a,c,'s spirit denies the Lord. But this demonic being does so much more than that.

Who the false prophet is gives us a hint in his title, he is going to be seen as a prophet. Is their a prophet who is supposed to anything in connection with the coming Christ? Of course there is one of the giants from Hebrew history a man who is a prophet and is to prepare the way of the Lord, Elijah, this will be the counterfeit the false prophet pulls off. The false Elijah will be testifying about this demonic counterfeit claiming he is the promised Messiah. But anyone can claim he is the Messiah. Scripture talk how the Jewish people want signs and they are going to get one like you cannot believe. The false prophet comes out on the Temple Mount and may or may not challenge all the religions to prove who the real God is. What he does do should blow us away, There on the temple mount with the cold dead 3rd temple just sitting there like a giant paperweight and no one can go in it. Step in the false Elijah. He goes to the doors on the eastside and begins to call down the Messiah. Imagine the electric atmosphere as all the networks are there reporting om these things. Suddenly false Elijah gets agitated and the Messiah is near. A little more prodding and the false prophet seems to bring fire down out of heaven, This fire must be there or no temple service can take place. anti-Christ is being shown and proclaimed as the Messiah. Remember I said how the evil trinity counterfeits the Holy Trinity? There will be no one that does not believe this being is the teturned Jesus Christ. Anti-Christ will enter the temple and be proclaimed as God/ Messiah. There is much more Scripture teaches on this trinity of evil. If anyone feels like this is a worthy subject see about getting to gether to do so. Thanks

 

[iamsoandso]

They do not understand, it needs 100% fulfillment to be considered fulfilled

I think everyone is trying to reason these things through and conclude some things fulfilled until some other Scripture challenges it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thats why if it does not appear t be fulfilled, because things have not happened yet

Consider them yet future, do not spiritualise them so you can make your believe appear to be correct

 

[iamsoandso]

Then from Matthew 24 up to Acts 1:4(no AoD) then from Acts 2 to Acts 21 where James nor Paul or the other disciples nor the Jews saw the temple as polluted , there is no AoD. There is Wars 2 where the Jews fought to keep it from being polluted all the way up to the end of the siege and still the Jews defend it to keep the pagans from polluting it. So from the DBR to ad70 there is no AoD.

 

[KJV1611]

Then from Matthew 24 up to Acts 1:4(no AoD) then from Acts 2 to Acts 21 where James nor Paul or the other disciples nor the Jews saw the temple as polluted , there is no AoD. There is Wars 2 where the Jews fought to keep it from being polluted all the way up to the end of the siege and still the Jews defend it to keep the pagans from polluting it. So from the DBR to ad70 there is no AoD.

What exactly do you think was such an abomination to God that God totally decimated the people of Israel over it?

Keep in mind that it’s the abomination that makes Israel desolate. What did they do in AD 70 or what could they possibly do in the future that’s a worse abomination that killing God?

 

[tourist]

well we know it will be rebuilt of that there is no issue

Mist likely your right, and that is part of the covenant the prince makes.. But this is all conjecture.. we may even find the dome of the rick is not the actual temple mount, It could be someplace else. But as you said, it could be completed in a matter of months (remember the temple itself is not the big, The ADDITIONS to the temple is what makes the temple so large..

Those can always be added later.

Everything is done,

Yep, ready and waiting.

 

[iamsoandso]

What exactly do you think was such an abomination to God that God totally decimated the people of Israel over it?

Keep in mind that it’s the abomination that makes Israel desolate. What did they do in AD 70 or what could they possibly do in the future that’s a worse abomination that killing God?

That's not what Jesus stated the reason was their house was left desolate in chapter 23 and that's why in Matthew 24:3 the disciples were puzzled by it. But now who is it the Scriptures say would set up that abomination the Scribes and Pharisees?

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

It would be absurd to think that Jesus would make a covenant with the Jews for only seven years, only to VIOLATE IT, pollute the sanctuary, corrupt people with flatteries, and thus bring about the Great Tribulation and its desolations.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. (Dan 11:31,32)

Absurd?????

Is God not Sovereign? Is Jesus not God? And was not the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross the all-sufficient and final sacrifice?
The answers are Yes, Yes, and Yes. So Jesus can and did end the sacrifice and offering.

So let us look at how the ESV translation reads.

Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Analysis of First Line: According to ESV, a strong covenant is made with many, but not with all. And it is made with many during a seven year period. It's not saying that the covenant only lasts seven years. It says that during this seven yr period many will enter or accept this [new] covenant. And we do know that Jesus did bring about a New Covenant. We know that God through Moses began the sacrifices, which pointed to the coming messiah. And we know that God used the Babylonian army to bring judgement on Judea around 593-586 BC. So we can also conclude that God, through the use of the Roman Army, brought about the end of the sacrifices halfway through the Roman-Jewish War (66-73AD).

Analysis of Second Line: Then shall come one who makes desolate. Here we can see the "one who makes desolate" (the desolator), can very well be a different person than "he".

In the ESV translation: "he" [in Dan 9:27] refers to the "anointed one"[in Dan 9:26] just as the "desolator" [in Dan 9:27] refers to the "prince" [in Dan 9:26].

Daniel 9:26 English Standard Version
And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Summary/Conclusion:
You and I both agree that two different persons are being discussed in Daniel 9:26: The Messiah, and the prince[anti-Christ].
So then is it possible that these two different persons are also being discussed in Daniel 9:27: He, and the desolator?

 

[KJV1611]

That's not what Jesus stated the reason was their house was left desolate in chapter 23 and that's why in Matthew 24:3 the disciples were puzzled by it. But now who is it the Scriptures say would set up that abomination the Scribes and Pharisees?

I’ll come back to the first part of your post in a bit. I’m on my phone and it’s hard to make long posts.

Daniel says that arms will stand for kings part and those arms will pollute the sanctuary, take away the daily sacrifice and place the ABOMINATION that makes Jerusalem desolate.

Dan 11:31 (KJV) And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

 

[Ahwatukee]

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html (See chapter six),,, the AoD ,are you saying it is when they set up their ensigns and made Titus imperator? If so then so then the GT would already be over with and does not agree with Matthew 24:15-28. (Happens after instead of before in your model)...

In post #124 you quote Josephus twice and now you bring up the 12th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XII_Fulminata which lost their aquila(eagle/ensign) at the battle of Beth Horon(Jews took it) so this cant be the AoD. Then you bring up Florus,,, https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-5.html (wars book 5,Josephus) who if you notice was doing this without the approval of Nero. so the AoD is it before ad66 or after ad70,,,your saying both?

Good day Iamsoandso,

And I would add, that the setting up of their ensigns and Titus as emperor could not be referring to the AOD and that because in Matt.24:15, Jesus referred to as a future event saying "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel." Therefore, the setting up of the AOD would be an event that would have had to have taken place after Jesus said it and before the temple was destroyed, which has not yet taken place.

The tribulation period is going to be unrivaled to any event that has ever taken place on the earth. For those who are preterists, this would include the destruction of temple and Jerusalem.

The antichrist will be revealed when he establishes that seven year covenant with Israel which will allow them to build their temple, with the AOD being set up in the middle of the that seven years, at the end of which Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish His kingdom.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Absurd?????

Is God not Sovereign? Is Jesus not God? And was not the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross the all-sufficient and final sacrifice?
The answers are Yes, Yes, and Yes. So Jesus can and did end the sacrifice and offering.

Your error here, is that you are not taking into consideration the decree of seventy seven year periods that was given to Israel and Jerusalem. Sixty-nine of those seven year period were fulfilled when the Messiah was cut off. At that time the Lord put a hold on the last seven years and began to build His church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descent to the atmosphere and call up the church, both dead and living. After this, that antichrist will be revealed by establishing his seven year agreement with Israel and God will pick up right where He left of with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years, complete with a new temple, sacrifices and offerings, just as it was prior to the Messiah being cut off.

The bottom is that, you are taking into consideration God's unfinished business with Israel in fulfillment of the following:

"to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."

The above is a decree that was made to Israel and Jerusalem and has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[Shekinahglory]

Absurd?????

Is God not Sovereign? Is Jesus not God? And was not the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross the all-sufficient and final sacrifice?
The answers are Yes, Yes, and Yes. So Jesus can and did end the sacrifice and offering.

So let us look at how the ESV translation reads.

Daniel 9:27 English Standard Version
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

Analysis of First Line: According to ESV, a strong covenant is made with many, but not with all. And it is made with many during a seven year period. It's not saying that the covenant only lasts seven years. It says that during this seven yr period many will enter or accept this [new] covenant. And we do know that Jesus did bring about a New Covenant. We know that God through Moses began the sacrifices, which pointed to the coming messiah. And we know that God used the Babylonian army to bring judgement on Judea around 593-586 BC. So we can also conclude that God, through the use of the Roman Army, brought about the end of the sacrifices halfway through the Roman-Jewish War (66-73AD).

Analysis of Second Line: Then shall come one who makes desolate. Here we can see the "one who makes desolate" (the desolator), can very well be a different person than "he".

In the ESV translation: "he" [in Dan 9:27] refers to the "anointed one"[in Dan 9:26] just as the "desolator" [in Dan 9:27] refers to the "prince" [in Dan 9:26].

Daniel 9:26 English Standard Version
And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.

Summary/Conclusion:
You and I both agree that two different persons are being discussed in Daniel 9:26: The Messiah, and the prince[anti-Christ].
So then is it possible that these two different persons are also being discussed in Daniel 9:27: He, and the desolator?

hi, don't want to interrupted but there is meat being served and I am hungry. Daniel 27 is actual the personage in Isaiah 28 the Covenant with death and this is anti-Christ the Prince of this world. anti-Christ will cause the desolation when he presents himself to apostate Israel and is accept as Messiah. This story is far mote stunning than anything that is taught today.

The many will be with the Northern Kingdom of Israel and they will hate the harlot the Southern kingdom. The northern kingdom does not have the temple and anti-Christ will be able to conceal his true nature for 3 and a 1/2 years. These kingdoms are split in a unique way 2 tribes in the southern kingdom and 10 in the north. The ten horns, kings, that mystery Babylon is riding on are these ten kings. But something happened and three are missing the Lord spoke about how three of the shepherd/ kings were uprooted. We need to understand that this last Week of 70 years must have to be a true prophesy all Jewish platers. Anti-Christ coming as the Messiah must come out of Israel a Jew like the Christ as well as all the other criteria he must meet to be seen as the Messiah promised in Scripture.

the false Prophet is going to come as Elijah and Elijah must make way for Messiah. But this false Elijah's real work will make them believe their Messiah has come. Out on the temple mount, don't know if he challenges all the religons, but we do know he will appear to bring fire down from heaven a description of something man cannot describe the Shekinah Glory Anti-Christ coming as an angel of fire. Beyond that this is essential because temple worship cannot take place without the fire from heaven. The Delusion that could almost fool the elect will fool apostate Israel.

If possible I hope to finish this and talk about the fallen angels. the fact the time of noah morphed itno the days of noah and so much more. thanks

 

[garee]

In Acts they were there in Acts 21 and onward(they did not flee Judea after the DBR).

What is the meaning to flee to Judea the High place? Is a object lesson like flee to the presence of God rather temples made of human hands?

Ephesians 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[iamsoandso]

Good day Iamsoandso,

And I would add, that the setting up of their ensigns and Titus as emperor could not be referring to the AOD and that because in Matt.24:15, Jesus referred to as a future event saying "when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel." Therefore, the setting up of the AOD would be an event that would have had to have taken place after Jesus said it and before the temple was destroyed, which has not yet taken place.

The tribulation period is going to be unrivaled to any event that has ever taken place on the earth. For those who are preterists, this would include the destruction of temple and Jerusalem.

The antichrist will be revealed when he establishes that seven year covenant with Israel which will allow them to build their temple, with the AOD being set up in the middle of the that seven years, at the end of which Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish His kingdom.

For the most part I think they see that This was not fulfilled by Titus generals but they need to show it as fulfilled somewhere prior to as70. The issue is that they were to flee when they saw the AoD spoken of by Daniel so it would be before the tribulation and not something that happens at the end like the generals setting up the ensigns because the sign would not be before the tribulation so it nullafies them watching for it.

 

[iamsoandso]

What is the meaning to flee to Judea the High place? Is a object lesson like flee to the presence of God rather temples made of human hands?

Ephesians 6:12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

lol, (flee out of Judea) not to it...

 

[iamsoandso]

I’ll come back to the first part of your post in a bit. I’m on my phone and it’s hard to make long posts.

Daniel says that arms will stand for kings part and those arms will pollute the sanctuary, take away the daily sacrifice and place the ABOMINATION that makes Jerusalem desolate.

Dan 11:31 (KJV) And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

I agree I had Daniel 11:31-32 in mind also which doesn't match Matthew 23:38 based on what is said by Jesus about the Scribes and Pharisees in Matt.23.(seems to be two different topics)

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Makes sense to me, but I do have one question about Daniel 9:27. "And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week".
What is your view on this part of Daniel 9:27?

Daniel 9:26-27 (NKJV)
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
27Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

Pax Romana or Roman peace was a "strong covenant" that was confirmed with many.

It obviously was not honored by Rome and it's citizens during the "first Jewish-Roman war" (66-73).
More on Pax Romana here.

 

[KJV1611]

I agree I had Daniel 11:31-32 in mind also which doesn't match Matthew 23:38 based on what is said by Jesus about the Scribes and Pharisees in Matt.23.(seems to be two different topics)

The question is who is the king of the south and who is the king of the north. Whoever that kings “arms” are is who placed Jesus on the cross. I would suspect that the arms were the Roman soldiers and both kings are some how tied into the jewish leadership - scribes and Pharisees.

 

[Shekinahglory]

That's not what Jesus stated the reason was their house was left desolate in chapter 23 and that's why in Matthew 24:3 the disciples were puzzled by it. But now who is it the Scriptures say would set up that abomination the Scribes and Pharisees?

the false prophet who is going to counterfeit the prophet Elijah who is expected precede Messiah's coming. The false Elijah is said to do one lying sign and wonder bring fire from heaven without which no temple service. The great delusion is so powerful the elect of that day would almost believe it is true. These things are only part of that delusion.