Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,362
Dec 27, 2018
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#108,362
KJV1611 said:
In your opinion what are those verses trying to convey, how the love of God is manifest or what regeneration means?
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God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,363
Nov 23, 2013
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#108,363
Macabeus said:
OK, good. You understand the MEANS of regeneration, but not yet the meaning of regeneration.

Now read this, if you would please...this will explain precisely what regeneration means
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Why would I care what James strong or another whatever he is, says? I have a bible that tells me exactly what regeneration is, I don't need a, at best, baby Christian and at worst, LOST PERSON explaining what the bible means to me. I'm referring to James Strong and the likes, not you.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,364
Dec 27, 2018
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#108,364
KJV1611 said:
Why would I care what James strong or another whatever he is, says? I have a bible that tells me exactly what regeneration is, I don't need a, at best, baby Christian and at worst, LOST PERSON explaining what the bible means to me. I'm referring to James Strong and the likes, not you.
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Well you can check any Greek lexicon and they will agree with my definition of regeneration.

But again, here is my answer to your question about Titus 3:5 again.

God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,365
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#108,365
Macabeus said:
God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
Click to expand...
Now you're doing it right.... considering the context FIRST.
The KJV says that God manifest his love by 1) Saving us 2) washing us with the word 3) renewing us with the Holy Spirit.

Since those are three evidences of God's love, then Saving us IS NOT regeneration, regeneration IS NOT the renewing of the Holy Ghost.

Each are those are THREE DIFFERENT evidences of God's love on us.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,366
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#108,366
Macabeus said:
Well you can check any Greek lexicon and they will agree with my definition of regeneration.

But again, here is my answer to your question about Titus 3:5 again.

God's love is manifest toward us because He saved us,

Not because of anything we did, but because of His mercy and love.

In God's mercy, we have been born of God, born from above, born again, and we have been made new by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

If any man be in Christ, He is a new creature (regeneration) old things have passed away, all things have become new (renewing)
Click to expand...
Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,367
Dec 27, 2018
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#108,367
KJV1611 said:
Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
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When you are saved you are made a new creature instantly. But learning to walk takes time
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,368
Nov 23, 2013
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#108,368
Macabeus said:
When you are saved you are made a new creature instantly. But learning to walk takes time
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So you are you agreeing that salvation and the washing of regeneration which comes from reading the word ARE NOT the same thing?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,369
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#108,369
KJV1611 said:
So you are you agreeing that salvation and the washing of regeneration which comes from reading the word ARE NOT the same thing?
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Regeneration is PART of salvation, but not the whole. There are many aspects or facets of salvation.

Regeneration

Adoption

Justification

Sanctification

Preservation

Glorification

All are works of God, by God, not of us or by us

Have to get ready for church. Have a blessed one
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#108,370
#108,370
KJV1611 said:
Salvation is INSTANTANEOUS, the washing of regeneration takes time, sometimes a long, long, long time (10 years for me).

Are you saying that you were saved, regenerated by the word and renewed by the Holy Spirit INSTANTANEOUSLY?
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Mr KJV I cannot see regeneration to be a process. I would have to agree with @Macabeus on this one.

Understanding scripture through our personal experience of the new birth can be a problem.
God does not need to time to accomplish the new birth in us, it is accomplished when we believe.

It is lack of understanding on our part that is the cause for our not living out our "new status in Christ"...... and this is why we have all those letters.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,371
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#108,371
Macabeus said:
Regeneration is PART of salvation, but not the whole. There are many aspects or facets of salvation.

Regeneration

Adoption

Justification

Sanctification

Preservation

Glorification

All are works of God, by God, not of us or by us

Have to get ready for church. Have a blessed one
Click to expand...
Well that’s the gospel according to Mac. We’re talking about the gospel according to Titus. The two views, yours and Titus conflict.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,372
Dec 27, 2018
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#108,372
KJV1611 said:
Well that’s the gospel according to Mac. We’re talking about the gospel according to Titus. The two views, yours and Titus conflict.
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Ummm...you mean gospel according to Paul right. Everything I said is from the writings of Paul, and Paul wrote Titus.

Name one thing I said that you think is anti-Pauline and I will give a text where he said the same thing

Guaranteed
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,373
Nov 23, 2013
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#108,373
UnderGrace said:
Mr KJV I cannot see regeneration to be a process. I would have to agree with @Macabeus on this one.

Understanding scripture through our personal experience of the new birth can be a problem.
God does not need to time to accomplish the new birth in us, it is accomplished when we believe.

It is lack of understanding on our part that is the cause for our not living out our "new status in Christ"...... and this is why we have all those letters.
Click to expand...
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#108,374
Nov 23, 2013
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#108,374
Macabeus said:
Ummm...you mean gospel according to Paul right. Everything I said is from the writings of Paul, and Paul wrote Titus.

Name one thing I said that you think is anti Pauline and I will give a text where he said the same thing

Guaranteed
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We’re talking about Titus Mac. The gospel according to Titus.

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,375
Dec 27, 2018
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876
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#108,375
KJV1611 said:
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Click to expand...
Great post, UG 👍
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#108,376
Dec 27, 2018
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#108,376
KJV1611 said:
We’re talking about Titus Mac. The gospel according to Titus.

Tit 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
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Titus, which was written by Paul. So it is the gospel according to Paul, not Mac. And you are correct in that it is the gospel according to the BOOK of Titus, written by Paul.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#108,377
#108,377
KJV1611 said:
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Click to expand...
Interesting .... definitely spiritual
Not sure if the renewing of our mind is regeneration :unsure:
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#108,378
#108,378
KJV1611 said:
I think you believe that because you believe that the regeneration is the regeneration of your spirit (correct me if I’m wrong) but the regeneration is the renewing of our minds, our minds are regenerated to think according to scripture instead of the ways of the world.
Click to expand...
Really I should not state too much since I have not read the debate, but you have peaked my curiosity and if this rain persists I may have time to go back and read.:)
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#108,379
Nov 17, 2015
4,098
959
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#108,379
Umm. it seems to me that no salvation losers/worker is around the corner. Is this good news in this long traveled thread?
 
CherieR

CherieR

Senior Member
#108,380
May 6, 2017
2,269
1,425
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#108,380
KJV1611 said:
Titus 3:5 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit

The appearance of the kindness and love of God came by:
  1. Saving us.
  2. What is the second thing that shows the appearance of the love of God?
  3. What is the third thing that shows the appearance of the love of God?
NASB gospel for that verse - God manifest his love for us by saving us ONLY. That salvation came by 1)the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.


Titus 3:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The appearance of the kindness and love of God came by:
  1. Saving us.
  2. He washed us with the washing of regeneration. (not regular water, living water)
  3. He renewed us with the renewing of the Holy Ghost.
KJV gospel for that verse - God manifest his love for us by saving us by 1) Saving us, 2) washing us with the word 3) renewing us with the Holy Ghost.

Two VERY DIFFERENT gospels. The HSCB says exactly the same thing as the NASB but the wording is slightly different.

The context of Titus 3 is the manifestation of God's love. Which gospel is true, the KJV OR the NAASB/HSCB?
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In the KJV it sounds like regeneration and renewing are included in salvation. The NASB also makes it sound like regeneration and renewing are included in salvation. The thing I don't like that the NASB says is that part where it says " deeds which we have done in righteousness". In Isaiah 64:6 our righteousness is compared to " filthy rags"
 
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