Abide in Christ
- Thread starter CherieR
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What do you make of this?
Ezek 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Lord GOD. Wouldn't I prefer that he turn from his ways and live?
1 Tim 2:3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Does God desire all men to be saved and not cause all of them to be saved?
Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10) In Philippians 3:9, we read - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith. *What kind of righteousness trusts in their own righteousness? Would that be law or grace?
It's self explanatory and God desires all men to be saved, but not all men will be saved. Those who turn from their ways to his ways turn from darkness to light. (Acts 26:18)
The command is not only for those that are born again so your point about being not legalistic for those that are born doesn't make much sense. A command is just put out there, anyone
But the question is, does God desire ALL MEN to be saved but only cause some of them to turn away from sin against His own desire which is all men be saved? If God desires all men to be saved, why can't He cause all men to be saved as per your teaching?
The wicked are not born again and neither are those who have not yet come to the knowledge of the truth. Authentic obedience to God is produced out of faith.
God desires ALL MEN to be saved, yet NOT ALL MEN will be saved. We must place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus alone Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8) yet many will not and instead, remain lost. God gives us free will to choose Christ and does not force us to believe. (John 3:18) God does not fatalistically determine who and who will not be saved.
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
I am always taken back to this verse and verses similar in the Word. Here it is stated, "he would that all souls were saved."
Elsewhere it is written a bit more definitely I believe. The sad truth is there are those who will choose to be separted from God, it seems. Even this latter I am not certain about.
I do know that our Fathe would like for all souls to be saved. Noose's selstions from Ezekial are quie breath takeng when we truly understand them.
1Ti 2:4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.
I am always taken back to this verse and verses similar in the Word. Here it is stated, "he would that all souls were saved."
Elsewhere it is written a bit more definitely I believe. The sad truth is there are those who will choose to be separted from God, it seems. Even this latter I am not certain about.
I do know that our Fathe would like for all souls to be saved. Noose's selstions from Ezekial are quie breath takeng when we truly understand them.
Good, but why do you say obedience to God's command is a persons own righteousness?
Some people teach that God causes some people to have faith in Him which is just wrong. I think we are all being called to a life of obedience.
Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe in Christ unto salvation and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in (John 6:44) and enables us (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
A few posts above, when were discussing about Ezekiel 18. I quoted this:
Ezek 18:
20The soul who sins is the one who will die. A son will not bear the iniquity of his father, and a father will not bear the iniquity of his son. The righteousness of the righteous man will fall upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him.
21But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live.
And you said, this means a persons own righteousness.
Wrong.
We don't choose God either. The reason i keep asking; How does a 2 year old get saved? do they get to choose Christ?
In the same manner a toddler gets saved, all men get saved too.
What am I supposed to say about it? How do you interpret verse 16 that you bolded? What's your point?
I said - "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith. Someone who trusts in his own righteousness is not keeping all His statutes.
John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
You insunuated somehow that we choose God and the verse says believers don't choose God.
Well, i never said righteousness was about trusting oneself so you needed to bring this issues from the verses i quoted.
We do choose Christ (whosoever believes in Him - John 3:16), but only after the Father draws us and enables us. (John 6:44,65) Are you implying that a 2 year old, along with infants who are unable to make a decision for Christ (repent and believe the gospel) will not be saved? What did David say about his infant that died? - "Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me." (2 Samuel 12:23)
So you are saying that Jesus fatalistically chooses people? Why does Jesus choose people? Do you believe that Jesus is omniscient?
I already dealt with the verses that you quoted.
No. I'm asking, how are they saved?
Your teaching is that only those that believe and trust in Christ's atoning work are saved. If infants are saved too, in what form do they trust and believe in Christ?
They are saved by the blood of Christ just as every human is. How can you hold an infant accountable for failing to repent and believe the gospel when they are incapable of doing so? According to your logic, all infants would end up in hell.
