Taxing the rich?

[tourist]

Who you run with? Well sons of fishermen, truck drivers, house painters, dock workers, landscapers and other assorted middle class workers but your idea of private school and mine I suspect are quite different. Mine cost $35 per month 9 mos. a year or $300 a year if paid in full at the beginning of the year.

No science, art, music or government. Algebra, Latin, French, typing, drafting & drivers ed., were electives. Catechism was mandatory every day.

For me Catechism was mandatory every Saturday morning during the school year with each class lasting one hour. That seriously cut into my Saturday morning cartoons. On top of that I had to give up candy for Lent. It was a form of purgatory I suppose. Had some mean nuns too. One of the much older ones had to swat my wrist with a ruler. I'm sure I had it coming. Had to confessed whatever sin I may have committed ins confession during a Saturday afternoon. Whole day was a wash.

 

[maxwel]

If your putting money and possessions above people then you have a very serious question to answer. Greed is not good. Aspirational thinking is toxic. Here in Australia in the 70s we had excellent social programs. It was the capitalist party that destroyed it all later. It is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than getting a rich man to heaven. I would have to write a 200 page essay on why capitalism has failed. The great American dream has become a nitemare

This is an entirely false equivalence to equate "greed" with "aspirational thinking."


.

 

[UnderGrace]

This is an entirely false equivalence to equate "greed" with "aspirational thinking."


.

I was thinking that too.

Aspirational thinking is a good thing... where would we still be without it.... using out houses, lugging water on our heads, etc., etc.,

 

[maxwel]

I was thinking that too.

Aspirational thinking is a good thing... where would we still be without it.... using out houses, lugging water on our heads, etc., etc.,

And to be quite blunt,
if no one has any aspirations,
and no one has any kind of "success",
then just WHO precisely are the socialists going to steal everything from?

If no one has anything... who are you going to take from?

.

 

[UnderGrace]

And to be quite blunt,
if no one has any aspirations,
and no one has any kind of "success",
then just WHO precisely are the socialists going to steal everything from?

If no one has anything... who are you going to take from?

.

That is a problem.
Blunt and right on the money too!!

 

[UnderGrace]

And to be quite blunt,
if no one has any aspirations,
and no one has any kind of "success",
then just WHO precisely are the socialists going to steal everything from?

If no one has anything... who are you going to take from?

.

And Thank You

 

[calibob]

For me Catechism was mandatory every Saturday morning during the school year with each class lasting one hour. That seriously cut into my Saturday morning cartoons. On top of that I had to give up candy for Lent. It was a form of purgatory I suppose. Had some mean nuns too. One of the much older ones had to swat my wrist with a ruler. I'm sure I had it coming. Had to confessed whatever sin I may have committed ins confession during a Saturday afternoon. Whole day was a wash.

In St. Fermin Lasuen the entire school was all teenage boys and all of the teachers were male. and we had the 2nd best football team football in the all Catholic version of the California Interscholastic league. No sissys!

 

[maxwel]

Taxing the Rich & Marxism:


Taxation from a purely functional view:
If we put our ethics aside, and just view things purely based on "outcome", as the left prefers to reduce morality, then we're left with this: It's perfectly effective to tax the rich, or anyone else, but ONLY to such a degree that it does not cannibalize the very system that created something to be taxed!
If a goose is laying nice golden eggs, and you starve the goose... you ain't gettin no eggs!

Marxism is inherently illogical.
The reason Marxism is illogical is because being logical was never it's intention.

Marxism falls into the category of "continental philosophy", a genre of philosophy in which philosophers aren't adhering to any strict rules of logic, but rather, they are merely appealing to emotions and experiences.
Marxism doesn't make any logical sense because it was never intended to.

It was never anything more than an emotional appeal, with just enough pretense of evidence to confuse emotional people.
You CANNOT approach Marxism in any purely analytical way without the entire philosophy falling down flat.

Marxism is an appeal to emotion.
It is simply nothing more than that.
It doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny or analysis because it simply CANNOT.

It is a big pile of emotion propped up by more emotion.

It's a great way to upset the masses, emotionally, and overthrow a government.... it's a great way to mobilize people to bring about something destructive.
But although it's a great way to bring about the destructive, it's a poor way to bring about the constructive, or anything beneficial or uplifting.
The graves of millions can attest to this.

..

 

[jaybird88]

Exactly so which one are we talking about since you mentioned the Philippines, was it capitalism or the process of industrialization that was the problem?

See if you want to argue against captilaism then show where the theory is wrong and then I can show you on a theoretical level why socialism is faulty right from the get go.

i go by the end result rather than theory. Philippines and Nigeria are 2 end results of capitalism. 16 hr work days, low pay, no safety, kids working, etc are all common in these places, these were also common in the US many years back under capitalism.
the theory IMO does not work as well. a painter, carpenter, factory worker will never compete with the business owner, their only concern is providing for their family, the owners only concern is making money. as the system moves on the owners get more and more while the workers get less and less. this can be confirmed in the history of the US, 50 yrs back a worker made much less, technically they made more ( 200 a week verses 500 a week now) but back then your check was worth 500 gallons of milk where as today its only worth 300. the system is fueled by greed which leads to more wide spread poverty. walk through a city in the US and then walk through a city in Europe and you can easily see the difference.
socialism is not the answer, IMO the best answer is not a free market but a limited market, free market with lots and lots of rules, when you remove the rules (regulations) the rich money mizing elite will take everything. think of a monopoly game.

 

[UnderGrace]

i go by the end result rather than theory. Philippines and Nigeria are 2 end results of capitalism. 16 hr work days, low pay, no safety, kids working, etc are all common in these places, these were also common in the US many years back under capitalism.
the theory IMO does not work as well. a painter, carpenter, factory worker will never compete with the business owner, their only concern is providing for their family, the owners only concern is making money. as the system moves on the owners get more and more while the workers get less and less. this can be confirmed in the history of the US, 50 yrs back a worker made much less, technically they made more ( 200 a week verses 500 a week now) but back then your check was worth 500 gallons of milk where as today its only worth 300. the system is fueled by greed which leads to more wide spread poverty. walk through a city in the US and then walk through a city in Europe and you can easily see the difference.
socialism is not the answer, IMO the best answer is not a free market but a limited market, free market with lots and lots of rules, when you remove the rules (regulations) the rich money mizing elite will take everything. think of a monopoly game.

First of all you have made an assumption that Phillipines and Nigeria are the end result of capitalism?

I think that if we look at government involvement in subsidies etc., etc., we can see it is not really capitalism but a poorly managed economy which is typical.

Government most like will mess things up rather than fix them ... limited government is best.

 

[jaybird88]

First of all you have made an assumption that Phillipines and Nigeria are the end result of capitalism?

its not an assumption, they are both capitalist and both are in really bad shape. this can be confirmed in many places.

I think that if we look at government involvement in subsidies etc., etc., we can see it is not really capitalism but a poorly managed economy which is typical.

Government most like will mess things up rather than fix them ... limited government is best.

if its a poor government it became poor under a capitalist economy.

you have to have government to keep the big biz in check, you remove the government and you get wall street bailouts and great depression.

 

[calibob]

First of all you have made an assumption that Phillipines and Nigeria are the end result of capitalism?

I think that if we look at government involvement in subsidies etc., etc., we can see it is not really capitalism but a poorly managed economy which is typical.

Government most like will mess things up rather than fix them ... limited government is best.

limited government and limited capitalism not right not left but balance between both. both. Neither extremes. 45 years ago I would have voted to abolish the 55 mph speed limits on certain highways and improved them to make them safe at 155 mph like the autobahn. Established toll booths and make people pay for the privilege. Now I see thats unfair to those who can't afford cars that go that fast and all the slow cars would be a hazard to those who can go that fast. So I've changed my mind and I see the economy in a similar way avoiding both extremes will be the most helpful to the most people.

 

[SpoonJuly]

its not an assumption, they are both capitalist and both are in really bad shape. this can be confirmed in many places.



if its a poor government it became poor under a capitalist economy.

you have to have government to keep the big biz in check, you remove the government and you get wall street bailouts and great depression.

When the government is involved the rules will change with each change in government.
Constant change will only lead to more and more uncertainty and constant turmoil for not only the business owner but also the consumer.

A business' success or failure is in the hands of the consumer.
Walmart became the world's largest and most successful retailer because the consumer approved of what they offered.
No one has ever been forced to shop at Walmart.
No one has ever been forced to work for Walmart.


Walmart forced other retailer to become better if they wished to continue in business.
Those that refused failed.

No one forces you to shop where you do not want to nor do they force you to work where you do not want to.
It is up to you and has always has been.

 

[calibob]

Fast cars and motorcycles were my Gods.

 

[UnderGrace]

its not an assumption, they are both capitalist and both are in really bad shape. this can be confirmed in many places.



if its a poor government it became poor under a capitalist economy.

you have to have government to keep the big biz in check, you remove the government and you get wall street bailouts and great depression.

What exactly makes them countries with a market economy?

 

[jaybird88]

When the government is involved the rules will change with each change in government.
Constant change will only lead to more and more uncertainty and constant turmoil for not only the business owner but also the consumer.

A business' success or failure is in the hands of the consumer.
Walmart became the world's largest and most successful retailer because the consumer approved of what they offered.
No one has ever been forced to shop at Walmart.
No one has ever been forced to work for Walmart.


Walmart forced other retailer to become better if they wished to continue in business.
Those that refused failed.

No one forces you to shop where you do not want to nor do they force you to work where you do not want to.
It is up to you and has always has been.

walmart is a pretty good example of the problem.
they have more money than they could ever spend in a hundred lifetimes yet they receave

When the government is involved the rules will change with each change in government.
Constant change will only lead to more and more uncertainty and constant turmoil for not only the business owner but also the consumer.

A business' success or failure is in the hands of the consumer.
Walmart became the world's largest and most successful retailer because the consumer approved of what they offered.
No one has ever been forced to shop at Walmart.
No one has ever been forced to work for Walmart.


Walmart forced other retailer to become better if they wished to continue in business.
Those that refused failed.

No one forces you to shop where you do not want to nor do they force you to work where you do not want to.
It is up to you and has always has been.

not sure Walmart would be the best example in defending capitalism.

they have more money than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes yet they receive hundreds of millions yearly in government welfare.
employees are treated like garbage, paid so low they have to have government assistance just to put food on the table.

im a consumer and i never approved of how Walmart did businessmen, i preferred the local IGA that was owned and operated by a local family, but they were ran out of business by Walmart, they didnt get the special tax cuts and government benefits Walmart gets, i guess they could have got all that but unfortunately they were a Christian family and did not approve of bribing state and federal politicians as they believed it to be unlawful and unethical.

i love the story of the single moms that worked at walmart, their wages were so low they could not afford to take care of their children so all the employees nationwide started a single moms fund that they all supported, they put in several million dollars, and the walton family only contributed about forty five hundred dollars and yet spent multimillions that year in political contributions.

and i almost forgot about their own personal anti union police that they send out to stores if they suspect anyone talking about unions. i guess walmart believes those workers have no right to negotiate their own labor. i think they got this idea from henry ford, he had several thug squads that went around his factories to make sure the workers never talked to each other or sat down. he even sent people to your home to inquire how you lived and you better be living in a way thats approving to ford or you could lose your job!

 

[jaybird88]

What exactly makes them countries with a market economy?

i dont understand what your asking.

did you get a new kitty pic?

 

[UnderGrace]

i dont understand what your asking.

did you get a new kitty pic?

Yes I am turning the other cheek and @blue_ladybug gave me a red rose for being a good kitty!!

I am asking why do you think they are capitalistic economies... at best they are mixed market economies...no?

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes I am turning the other cheek and @blue_ladybug gave me a red rose for being a good kitty!!

I am asking why do you think they are capitalistic economies... at best they are mixed market economies...no?

Haha "a good kitty" hah

 

[SpoonJuly]

walmart is a pretty good example of the problem.
they have more money than they could ever spend in a hundred lifetimes yet they receave


not sure Walmart would be the best example in defending capitalism.

they have more money than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes yet they receive hundreds of millions yearly in government welfare.
employees are treated like garbage, paid so low they have to have government assistance just to put food on the table.

im a consumer and i never approved of how Walmart did businessmen, i preferred the local IGA that was owned and operated by a local family, but they were ran out of business by Walmart, they didnt get the special tax cuts and government benefits Walmart gets, i guess they could have got all that but unfortunately they were a Christian family and did not approve of bribing state and federal politicians as they believed it to be unlawful and unethical.

i love the story of the single moms that worked at walmart, their wages were so low they could not afford to take care of their children so all the employees nationwide started a single moms fund that they all supported, they put in several million dollars, and the walton family only contributed about forty five hundred dollars and yet spent multimillions that year in political contributions.

and i almost forgot about their own personal anti union police that they send out to stores if they suspect anyone talking about unions. i guess walmart believes those workers have no right to negotiate their own labor. i think they got this idea from henry ford, he had several thug squads that went around his factories to make sure the workers never talked to each other or sat down. he even sent people to your home to inquire how you lived and you better be living in a way thats approving to ford or you could lose your job!

You missed the point of my post---
Walmart's success is the result of the consumer.
Each and every retailer's success is because the consumer approves of what they offer.

Walmart's pay scale and benefits are comparable with other retailers and better than many.
My neighbor works for Walmart as a night stocker and a makes over $16 per hour and that is more than Korger that is unionized.
I would challenge you to ask Walmart employees of how much they like or dislike Walmart and not believe the words of anti Walmart people.
As I said before, NO ONE forces people to work or shop at Walmart.
Seems a lot of folks like to work and shop at Walmart or they would not be so successful.

I do not shop at Walmart. I prefer to shop at local independent businesses.
But I do invest in Walmart because it is a great way to increase your retirement fund.

Consumers pay all the business' taxes and also says who successes and fails.