Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

Greetings Dan,

To all who want to discuss what our Creators will is as written in the scrptures, or as Paul termed it ""instruction in righteousness" I say "Great" I recognize that you can type and so I also recognize that you can read, so I also recognize that you can study, so I also recognize that what you choose to read and follow from the scripture is all your doing.

Well, then that means your choices are what you will be judged for on that day. If in a discussion forum you pose questions about how to interpret and then observe a command, but then use that answer to turn around and rend someone who gave you an answer then you are the very one that Yahshau warned us about;

(Mat 7:6 NIV) "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.


Certainly you have heard of "pearls of wisdom" So Y gives you "pearls" and you now "turn and rend" him. You need to consider how inappropriate your behavior is.

SG

This is low even by your own standards.

Person A (Dan) asks people how they personally obey Gods commands

Person B (you) Your actions are inappropriate!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Yahshua

So Yahshua, I see that you gave a like to post https://christianchat.com/threads/d...-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.185392/post-4027527

Are you also in favor of not talking about how one practices what one preaches?

If so, please, can you explain why so many folks who talk about keeping the law don't want to talk about how they actually put it into practice? What physical actions they take?

I believe I had asked you a while back about wearing blended fabrics. And I think you gave a lengthy response about how a person could begin to keep that commandment. How over time they could wear out their existing clothes and replace them with ones made with a single fabric.

But when I asked you what was actually in your sock drawer, I don't believe you answered.

Do people feel they will be embarrassed if they talk about their daily practices? You are welcome to ask me anything within the limits set up here by the moderators.

I think it is pretty obvious my brother

People love to push how we have to obey commands

But when push comes to shove, They prove that they do not even practice what they preach.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Question.

A person wakes up Thanks God for another day, Spends his day looking for people to LOVE and to SERVE, (His family his coworkers, his customers, his neighbors) And looks for ways in which he feels God love which is poured out on him this day, so that he can love others even more

Is that person going to be one who obeys Gods commands, Or one who is a command breaker?

 

[NayborBear]

Are we talking about believing we can follow jesus, or follow the law?

I believe I can follow jesus, but I am not FOOLISH enough to think I can follow the law



Again.

Are we talking about doing what Jesus did, (I even believe I can do all jesus did if it is in his will, even the miracles he performed)

or are we talking about the law?

Two different things.

I have to keep wondering from statements like this. Just what Jesus are you, and others like you following?
I mean, how are you able in so surgically separating ("cheery pick"/"buffet style") Jesus from the law? And, still consider yourself a teacher of Christ? (can you say "precepts of men?"...aka traditions)

It doesn't "blow my mind", but, it certainly "exposes gaps and breaches" in your "walls." To which you "seem" so joyous and happy in ferverishly looking for yet more ways in "justifying" these breaches, in a vain and profane manner. While "rejecting" those sacrifices which have now become "spiritual" in nature!
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, ACCEPTABLE TO God BY Jesus Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

LOL ok. Yeah thats always the thing right, when someone posts verses of Jesus you imply bad things about them personally ven though you have never met them, then go "ohh you all bent out of shape"You play games.


I see you ignored what I posted. You may see them a "problem" but believing Jesus words are not a problem to me.

You literally told me Jesus is not my example, Paul is...

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”

1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”

John 14:23-24, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.

I will follow Jesus with every ounce of strength He has given me. Every bit of free will I have been given I will use to seek His path. Every time His Spirit guides me I will seek to obey. If I stumbl, I will look to Jesus for guidance and strength.

Matthew 10:37-39, " 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Sometimes God works for us other times He puts ppl though trials, and in those times He does not "do it for us" He will guide, teach, correct, etc. and those who truly love Him will choose Him and His ways and cast their crowns at His feet and praise Him.

No. You are right. Jesus is your example. Jesus is everyones example. He set the bar pretty high, though, is all I was trying to say.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to keep wondering from statements like this. Just what Jesus are you, and others like you following?
I mean, how are you able in so surgically separating ("cheery pick"/"buffet style") Jesus from the law? And, still consider yourself a teacher of Christ? (can you say "precepts of men?"...aka traditions)

It doesn't "blow my mind", but, it certainly "exposes gaps and breaches" in your "walls." To which you "seem" so joyous and happy in ferverishly looking for yet more ways in "justifying" these breaches, in a vain and profane manner. While "rejecting" those sacrifices which have now become "spiritual" in nature!
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, ACCEPTABLE TO God BY Jesus Christ.

What amazes me is why you think you can WATER down the law. and claim to be a follower of the law. or of Jesus.

In fact, it sort of mocks and is disrespectful to Christ is it not? He came fulfill the law in your place. by taking the curse of the law you have earned and continue to earn by your actions. Yet you claim even today, You can keep the law?

You can no more keep the law than the jews who rejected Jesus, who thought the law is what made them righteous, and separated them from the dirty Gentiles. The same law they thought MADE then children of God. And the same law that made them think Christ was an impostor and false teacher

But hey, if you want to do that, Instead of trying to find out what REALLY empowers you to obey Gods commands, and makes you a righteous person. Well feel free.

Me? My life is to important and God is to important and his will is to important for me to go BACK to what can only condemn me, and at best, give me a false hope and false sense of how morally good I really am, Because I need and desire to be used by God, in order to do that, I have to act like Christ.

 

[Grandpa]

Because you change what you believe all the time. One day the law is dead, the next day you work the law, the next day you only rest, the next day its the commandments are written in stone the next day they are done away with. Just never know what you are talking about. Seems to change with who ever you are talking to. That is why it is so confusing. Take a stance and stick with it.

I don't change what I believe.

It is your understanding that is lacking.

Resting in Christ doesn't mean commandments are not kept.

Working at the law doesn't mean keeping the law.

 

[DeighAnn]

PLEASE, TELL ME WHERE I HAD A WILLFULL BLINDNESS ALSO TELL ME WHERE I KEPT RIGHT ON GOING, PLEASE. AND PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF THE LAW HAD "DIVISIONS" BETWEEN MORAL AND CEREMONIAL AND CIVIL LAW ETC. AND WHY IT MATTERS.

I recently gave deighann a detailed definition of the greek word for Law, and she said nothing about it, just kept right on saying that the Law is divided, as if the language the N.T. is written in is no big deal...

this is willful blindness to prop up a belief system.

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Grandpa said: 7641
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

As so many have a different belief to what is meant by this; FOR YOU does that mean all law, or the law of the flesh, or Levitical law, or the Mosaic law, the law of the kingdom of God, the law of sin, the law of your own mind, the food law, the law of liberty etc... through what law are you dead to what law? And how did you decide this would be yours?

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gb9 said: 7642


this law-

nomos. greek word for Law.

meaning- injunction, Law of Moses (singular) , the Pentateuch ( the books which contain the Law), or it can mean the Old Testamnet in general.

you say you are still learning. learn what I just wrote is true, and change your wrong beliefs about the Law being divided.

You seem to think that the Law of Moses was "one" law not divided. OK. What does that have to do with the Law of the kingdom of God that the life and death of Jesus Christ brought about as the law we are to follow now?

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DeighAnn said: 7647


You seem to think that the Law of Moses was "one" law not divided. OK. What does that have to do with the Law of the kingdom of God that the life and death of Jesus Christ brought about as the law we are to follow now?

I don't think the Law is not divided, I just showed it to you here;

words have definitions. it is not wise to push a belief over facts, which is what you just did.

 

[Lightskin]

What amazes me is why you think you can WATER down the law. and claim to be a follower of the law. or of Jesus.

In fact, it sort of mocks and is disrespectful to Christ is it not? He came fulfill the law in your place. by taking the curse of the law you have earned and continue to earn by your actions. Yet you claim even today, You can keep the law?

You can no more keep the law than the jews who rejected Jesus, who thought the law is what made them righteous, and separated them from the dirty Gentiles. The same law they thought MADE then children of God. And the same law that made them think Christ was an impostor and false teacher

But hey, if you want to do that, Instead of trying to find out what REALLY empowers you to obey Gods commands, and makes you a righteous person. Well feel free.

Me? My life is to important and God is to important and his will is to important for me to go BACK to what can only condemn me, and at best, give me a false hope and false sense of how morally good I really am, Because I need and desire to be used by God, in order to do that, I have to act like Christ.

Maybe I’m wrong. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see much talk about grace from those who are intrinsically focused on the law. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Grandpa]

At the very point this is verifiable, it is a concluded fact that what is being witnessed is a man of lawlessness. The world winks at these sins, but we should rather EXPOSE THEM.

I have called them out before and they try to move on as if to say; "What are you making such a big fuss about?"

(Eph 5:11 NIV) Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Which one of these is Lawless???? The gentile, who has attained RIGHTEOUSNESS through faith in Christ?

Or the jew who works at the law but hasn't attained to Righteousness?


Just because a person works at the law that doesn't make them "law keepers".

Just because a person doesn't work at the law doesn't necessarily make them lawless.


I really don't understand the Judaizer and legalist pushing so hard for everyone to work at the law when it is so obvious that Christians follow a BETTER WAY.

2 Corinthians 3:7-9
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


Those who are following the letter are following the ministration of death.

Those who are following the spirit are following the ministration of Righteousness.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe I’m wrong. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see much talk about grace from those who are intrinsically focused on the law. 🤷‍♂️

You do not see how them telling HOW to obey these so called commands either

You just see them with their usual argument, If you love God keep his commands.

Well yeah..

HOW DO WE DO THIS?

they offer no answer, then again, they do not answer many questions..

 

[Grandpa]

You seem to think that the Law of Moses was "one" law not divided. OK. What does that have to do with the Law of the kingdom of God that the life and death of Jesus Christ brought about as the law we are to follow now?

Where are these laws of the kingdom of God enumerated?

 

[DeighAnn]

WHO According to Gods standard, KEEPS the law?

Up to Gods Standard? With the spirit leading and guiding us along with repentance and forgiveness for any transgression, ALL OF US, I hope.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

PLEASE, TELL ME WHERE I HAD A WILLFULL BLINDNESS ALSO TELL ME WHERE I KEPT RIGHT ON GOING, PLEASE. AND PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF THE LAW HAD "DIVISIONS" BETWEEN MORAL AND CEREMONIAL AND CIVIL LAW ETC. AND WHY IT MATTERS.

I think it matters in how we interpret the law

The law was given as a unit,

People who say they keep the law have to do them all.

If someone claims they keep the law. Yet decides most of the law does not apply to them. do they really follow the law?

Most people would say no, And I would agree.

 

[Grandpa]

Up to Gods Standard? With the spirit leading and guiding us along with repentance and forgiveness for any transgression, ALL OF US, I hope.

Except for one small caveat;

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Up to Gods Standard? With the spirit leading and guiding us along with repentance and forgiveness for any transgression, ALL OF US, I hope.

All of us?

That would mean we are all sinless, (as James said, if we keep the whole law yet stumble in one point, we are guilty of all. A guilty person has not kept the law. He is a breaker of the law, and as we see, only 1 sin causes us to be considered a sinner, or breaker of the law)

Because that is required.

I only know of one man who lived out this, and his name was Jesus.

 

[DeighAnn]

Yes, And what do true repentant people do concerning the gospel?

I would imagine that is as vast as are repentant people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would imagine that is as vast as are repentant people.

ok, but would not a repentant person come to God in faith? And through that faith, would they not be saved by grace?

 

[Lightskin]

I think it matters in how we interpret the law

The law was given as a unit,

People who say they keep the law have to do them all.

If someone claims they keep the law. Yet decides most of the law does not apply to them. do they really follow the law?

Most people would say no, And I would agree.

Officer: You were speeding.
Driver: But at least I’m not drunk.
Officer: Regardless, you’re guilty of speeding.
Any questions?

 

[gb9]

PLEASE, TELL ME WHERE I HAD A WILLFULL BLINDNESS ALSO TELL ME WHERE I KEPT RIGHT ON GOING, PLEASE. AND PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF THE LAW HAD "DIVISIONS" BETWEEN MORAL AND CEREMONIAL AND CIVIL LAW ETC. AND WHY IT MATTERS.



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Grandpa said: 7641
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


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gb9 said: 7642


this law-

nomos. greek word for Law.

meaning- injunction, Law of Moses (singular) , the Pentateuch ( the books which contain the Law), or it can mean the Old Testamnet in general.

you say you are still learning. learn what I just wrote is true, and change your wrong beliefs about the Law being divided.



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DeighAnn said: 7647


You seem to think that the Law of Moses was "one" law not divided. OK. What does that have to do with the Law of the kingdom of God that the life and death of Jesus Christ brought about as the law we are to follow now?

like here. I have told you multiple times about Leviticus 26, how God the Father speaks of the Covenant made with the fathers of those who came out of Egypt.

the Covenant ( singular ) contained the 10 Commands , and the festivals, and the ceremonial laws, and the rest.

one Law. one Covenant . so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that Covenant was not made with you.

and, I just gave you ( again ) the definition of the greek word for Law, ( singular).

so, when you ignore these facts, and keep on saying otherwise, that makes you willfully blind.