As so many have a different belief to what is meant by this; FOR YOU does that mean all law, or the law of the flesh, or Levitical law, or the Mosaic law, the law of the kingdom of God, the law of sin, the law of your own mind, the food law, the law of liberty etc... through what law are you dead to what law? And how did you decide this would be yours?
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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As so many have a different belief to what is meant by this; FOR YOU does that mean all law, or the law of the flesh, or Levitical law, or the Mosaic law, the law of the kingdom of God, the law of sin, the law of your own mind, the food law, the law of liberty etc... through what law are you dead to what law? And how did you decide this would be yours?
Paul said these things to lead the gentles to obey God(Romans 15:18) and to no longer conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our mind. Then we will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. (Romans 12:1-2)
Jesus is the law that was written on our hearts. He is the law of love who fulfilled the law in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit, since we show that the requirements of the law are written on our hearts.
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
God is the one Lawgiver and Judge. His Word is a law to His servants who obey Him.
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2
Jesus is the law that was written on our hearts. He is the law of love who fulfilled the law in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit, since we show that the requirements of the law are written on our hearts.
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
God is the one Lawgiver and Judge. His Word is a law to His servants who obey Him.
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. Hebrews 1:1-2
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
1 Samuel 2:10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.
1 Kings 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.
Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psalm 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
1 Samuel 2:10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.
1 Kings 2:45 And king Solomon shall be blessed, and the throne of David shall be established before the LORD for ever.
Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
Psalm 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.
You implied I have some sort of own strength
You implied I have some sort of own strength complex, can you quote I single thing I said that would deserve a reply like that?
I quoted a verse of Jesus saying He is our example and said He is our perfect example... And you chose to make statements about me...
You implied I have some sort of own strength complex, can you quote I single thing I said that would deserve a reply like that?
I quoted a verse of Jesus saying He is our example and said He is our perfect example... And you chose to make statements about me...
If you consider my entire relpy I said I dont know if that is your intent of not. But Since you didn't comment on what I posted in a manner that you just said "open minded" but turned it into qeustioning me, I think it possbile you are looking to accuse. However if you would have commented on what you thought then asked the same question I do not think I would have replied in that manner.
You mentioned common ground, look at what I said at the end, what I actually purposed, that we dwell on Jesus words together... Maybe you missed that.
Ill number your questions and reply:
1 The question seemed devoid of any real mutual reasoning and seemed like a laid trap. I have seen this before when talknig about religious matters.
2 Because there was not mutual reasoning.
3 Without doubt we need mercy, wiothout mercy none would enter the kingdom. However I do think 100% anyone not in Messiah, that is serving Him and walking in His ways will not enter the kingdom. There is an large number of verses that Jesus says this Himself. If you disagree I am curious to see if it turns into name calling or actually quoting the words of Jesus?
I think John 3:16 and 3:36 are key companion verses that paint the picture in a brief manner.
I have a question for you if that is ok?
If I quote this verse:
John 5:28-30, " 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. 30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me."
am I a, b or c
a. A justified by works fallen and lost person
b. quoting and standing on the words of Jesus
c. other
You mentioned common ground, look at what I said at the end, what I actually purposed, that we dwell on Jesus words together... Maybe you missed that.
Ill number your questions and reply:
1 The question seemed devoid of any real mutual reasoning and seemed like a laid trap. I have seen this before when talknig about religious matters.
2 Because there was not mutual reasoning.
3 Without doubt we need mercy, wiothout mercy none would enter the kingdom. However I do think 100% anyone not in Messiah, that is serving Him and walking in His ways will not enter the kingdom. There is an large number of verses that Jesus says this Himself. If you disagree I am curious to see if it turns into name calling or actually quoting the words of Jesus?
I think John 3:16 and 3:36 are key companion verses that paint the picture in a brief manner.
I have a question for you if that is ok?
If I quote this verse:
John 5:28-30, " 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. 30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me."
am I a, b or c
a. A justified by works fallen and lost person
b. quoting and standing on the words of Jesus
c. other
Well I will answer, but that is only 1/3 of what He Himself said He came to fulfill.
and I know I assume I will get attacked for this, but while He has completed the perfect sacrifice thus offering mercy to humans, no the "law" is not completely fulfilled. Before you jump on me please consider this:
A part of the law is for a righteous jkudge to exact judgement upon the guilty party.
This will happen when He returns.
Revelation 18:6-8, " 6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. 7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’ 8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
Has this judgement already been handed out?
I say no, not yet. If you can show me in the word where this has already happened I will 100% hear you out.
IMO this is where that gets fulfilled:
Revelation 19:13-16, " 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Here is your chance to do as you said and rather than accuse to reason in the word and pursuade me using the word if you disagree Im all ears.
and I know I assume I will get attacked for this, but while He has completed the perfect sacrifice thus offering mercy to humans, no the "law" is not completely fulfilled. Before you jump on me please consider this:
A part of the law is for a righteous jkudge to exact judgement upon the guilty party.
This will happen when He returns.
Revelation 18:6-8, " 6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed. 7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’ 8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
Has this judgement already been handed out?
I say no, not yet. If you can show me in the word where this has already happened I will 100% hear you out.
IMO this is where that gets fulfilled:
Revelation 19:13-16, " 13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. 14 And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. 15 From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Here is your chance to do as you said and rather than accuse to reason in the word and pursuade me using the word if you disagree Im all ears.
I thkn you are saying kind of use human viewpoints from our own desire or what we have heard rather than letting the word and the Spirit guide us. Yes, it is my intent to fully submit to His SPirit and word rather than lean upon my own understanding.
That is why I only form a doctrine in my own belief when I beleive the word explicitly states something.
That is why I only form a doctrine in my own belief when I beleive the word explicitly states something.
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so because Im not perfefct Jesus is not my example, I then have to follow a imperfect man rather than the perfect example?
Also this "cant follow Jesus because we are not perfect" thig DIRECTLY contradicts Jesus own words:
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”
John 14:23-24, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
Also this "cant follow Jesus because we are not perfect" thig DIRECTLY contradicts Jesus own words:
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”
John 14:23-24, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
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All I did was point out some glaring problems with what you are trying to do.
No wonder you took such offense when I mentioned your own strength. How funny.
John 13:14-15
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
1 Peter 2:21-24
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
No wonder you took such offense when I mentioned your own strength. How funny.
John 13:14-15
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
1 Peter 2:21-24
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
LOL ok. Yeah thats always the thing right, when someone posts verses of Jesus you imply bad things about them personally ven though you have never met them, then go "ohh you all bent out of shape"You play games.
I see you ignored what I posted. You may see them a "problem" but believing Jesus words are not a problem to me.
You literally told me Jesus is not my example, Paul is...
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”
John 14:23-24, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
I will follow Jesus with every ounce of strength He has given me. Every bit of free will I have been given I will use to seek His path. Every time His Spirit guides me I will seek to obey. If I stumbl, I will look to Jesus for guidance and strength.
Matthew 10:37-39, " 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Sometimes God works for us other times He puts ppl though trials, and in those times He does not "do it for us" He will guide, teach, correct, etc. and those who truly love Him will choose Him and His ways and cast their crowns at His feet and praise Him.
I see you ignored what I posted. You may see them a "problem" but believing Jesus words are not a problem to me.
You literally told me Jesus is not my example, Paul is...
John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in His steps.”
1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”
John 14:23-24, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.
I will follow Jesus with every ounce of strength He has given me. Every bit of free will I have been given I will use to seek His path. Every time His Spirit guides me I will seek to obey. If I stumbl, I will look to Jesus for guidance and strength.
Matthew 10:37-39, " 37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Sometimes God works for us other times He puts ppl though trials, and in those times He does not "do it for us" He will guide, teach, correct, etc. and those who truly love Him will choose Him and His ways and cast their crowns at His feet and praise Him.
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Because you change what you believe all the time. One day the law is dead, the next day you work the law, the next day you only rest, the next day its the commandments are written in stone the next day they are done away with. Just never know what you are talking about. Seems to change with who ever you are talking to. That is why it is so confusing. Take a stance and stick with it.
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