Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

What does that have to do with having the laws of God written on my heart to do them?

you assume the laws of God are limited to ten commands or how ever many commands God gave moses.

I do not like assuming things

My goal is to do what he says,

1, Love him above all things
2. Love my neighbor (which includes my enemy)

if I do these two commands, I never have to worry about breaking ANY of Gods commands, be it commands given in the law or any of the many many commands not found in the law.

is not this what we should strive for?

 

[SimpleGardner]

you assume the laws of God are limited to ten commands or how ever many commands God gave moses.

I do not like assuming things

My goal is to do what he says,

1, Love him above all things
2. Love my neighbor (which includes my enemy)

if I do these two commands, I never have to worry about breaking ANY of Gods commands, be it commands given in the law or any of the many many commands not found in the law.

is not this what we should strive for?

Yes,

And a dangerous oversimplification. If that were all there were to it then why Matthew chapter 5? Or the wisdom and examples of Psalms and Proverbs? Or the Parables? Or the warnings and promises and admonitions of Revelations, or the examples of the Corinthians and Galatians, or the numerous admonitions of Paul or John or Peter or James and so on. All parts of the teachings and demonstrations of New Creatures working out their salvation with fear and trembling, every single one of them upholding the Laws of God, not hanging their hopes on two verses, while those two verses point to the entire word of God with the hopes of making our walk richer and more lovely than a fleshly mechanical attempt to purchase something that is given freely to those who will die to the flesh.

SG

 

[Yahshua]

1 John 1:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

How do you resolve the fact that John says we can not be perfect. and if we say we are we are deceived,

and the fact you think we CAN obey the law according to the requirment of said law?

While I'm tempted to dive into a discussion about John's passage again, I feel we'd be getting into the weeds and would stray from the current discussion...even though I recognize that you feel it's relevant here.

We still can but so far we've been talking about following Christ: doing everything He did. You believe no one can (which is your right to believe that), while I believe all beneficiaries of Christ's Holy Spirit can.

Can you share what you think makes the believer unable to do everything Christ did (and even more, as he promised) after receiving all the gifts He's given? Can you share "why" as you understand it?

I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

----

I see you engaged with SG, so you can get to my post when you can.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes,

And a dangerous oversimplification. If that were all there were to it then why Matthew chapter 5? Or the wisdom and examples of Psalms and Proverbs? Or the Parables? Or the warnings and promises and admonitions of Revelations, or the examples of the Corinthians and Galatians, or the numerous admonitions of Paul or John or Peter or James and so on. All parts of the teachings and demonstrations of New Creatures working out their salvation with fear and trembling, every single one of them upholding the Laws of God, not hanging their hopes on two verses, while those two verses point to the entire word of God with the hopes of making our walk richer and more lovely than a fleshly mechanical attempt to purchase something that is given freely to those who will die to the flesh.

SG

thanks for showing us matt 5

Jesus shows the one flaw of the law. as he tells us we can obey the letter. yet still be in sin.

The law says..... BUT I TELL YOU....

that's the point I am trying to make,

I can obey the law, YET STILL SIN (and thus also risk thinking I am not in sin when in reality I am in sin, which is a flaw in legalistic thinking)

but if I follow the law of love (which I posted earlier, which has only two commands) at that moment I WILL NOT SIN.

The law was NOT GIVEN to show me HOW to be righteous

IT WAS GIVEN to LEAD ME TO CHRIST. (caps for emphasis, I am not yelling)

so why you want to follow a law which can not help you after you came to Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

While I'm tempted to dive into a discussion about John's passage again, I feel we'd be getting into the weeds and would stray from the current discussion...even though I recognize that you feel it's relevant here.

We still can but so far we've been talking about following Christ: doing everything He did. You believe no one can (which is your right to believe that), while I believe all beneficiaries of Christ's Holy Spirit can.

No, I believe we can not be perfect like he was (obey EVERY ONE OF HIS ACTIONS LIKE HE DID)

Can you share what you think makes the believer unable to do everything Christ did (and even more, as he promised) after receiving all the gifts He's given? Can you share "why" as you understand it?

I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

----

I think paul answers this question well in romans 7. (our old nature or flesh)

I also think Jesus answers this well when he gave his two commands, which he says LOVE God, and LOVE our neighbor

While. yes, we can LOVE as jesus did, and as such, do things he did

We do not LOVE perfect love, like he had, This for this reason. We will NOT be able to love perfectly.

thus we CAN NOT do what he DID (fulfill the law)

 

[RickStudies]

No, I believe we can not be perfect like he was (obey EVERY ONE OF HIS ACTIONS LIKE HE DID)



I think paul answers this question well in romans 7. (our old nature or flesh)

I also think Jesus answers this well when he gave his two commands, which he says LOVE God, and LOVE our neighbor

While. yes, we can LOVE as jesus did, and as such, do things he did

We do not LOVE perfect love, like he had, This for this reason. We will NOT be able to love perfectly.

thus we CAN NOT do what he DID (fulfill the law)

I disagree. The Bible tells us we can have perfect love and the verses show that if we have not attained we aren`t where we need to be in our walk with God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree. The Bible tells us we can have perfect love and the verses show that if we have not attained we aren`t where we need to be in our walk with God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Yep

And this (the bolded part of those verses) is why I am not fearful of judgment because I have experienced and KNOW the perfect love of God. (that is where my faith and hope lay in, and why I believe in eternal security)

But to think 24/7 I perfectly love all people. I would be a FOOL.

so do you believe in eternal security? that you WILL be bale to boldly stand on judgment day because you NOW Gods love?

And do you BELIEVE you perfectly love all people in every moment of your life? (do you think you are sinless? )

 

[Grandpa]

How do you "walk" in the Spirit without doing anything? Paul compared it to running which is work. You float around on a cloud doing nothing?

Where do you get the idea that walking in the Spirit is doing nothing?

How come workers at the law never understand Rest in Christ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where do you get the idea that walking in the Spirit is doing nothing?

How come workers at the law never understand Rest in Christ?

I guess walking takes no action..lol

 

[SimpleGardner]

thanks for showing us matt 5

Jesus shows the one flaw of the law. as he tells us we can obey the letter. yet still be in sin.

The law says..... BUT I TELL YOU....

that's the point I am trying to make,

I can obey the law, YET STILL SIN (and thus also risk thinking I am not in sin when in reality I am in sin, which is a flaw in legalistic thinking)

but if I follow the law of love (which I posted earlier, which has only two commands) at that moment I WILL NOT SIN.

The law was NOT GIVEN to show me HOW to be righteous

IT WAS GIVEN to LEAD ME TO CHRIST. (caps for emphasis, I am not yelling)

so why you want to follow a law which can not help you after you came to Christ?

You are fighting true faith EG...

Your time in your doctrine is not what is important. there are professing Christians of 60 years who finally find the truth and begin their walk.

Even the criminal on the cross came to the light in the moments before his death.

Never, ever, think you cannot learn and abandon error EG. I hope my words do not offend you and I hope you do find the light that you call darkness, but you have walls. Never, ever allow walls to keep you from Yahshua liberty and love of Gods perfect will! I have walked in the "Let Go and Let God" before and it was seemingly amazing except I was not growing in the stature of Christ. It is a deceptive, alluring lie. Does God work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure? Yes, But His good pleasure, His will, are His righteous requirements! Know them and find the Love for them through the Holy Spirit!

SG

 

[Grandpa]

No, To choose to "keep The Law" without the Holy Spirit is not a choice it is a drudgery. I am saying and have always said that our choice is to be justified, baptized and then receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit which puts Gods Laws and Yahshua's commands in our hearts to do them (sanctification). This is our walk and it does include The Law and Commandments of Yahshua but from a totally new perspective and basis! No longer legalists, just followers of Yahshua and the Holy Spirit He sent to guide us!

Are you missing this GP, Have you taken a doctrinal hard-line to the point that you are resisting the work of the Holy Spirit to work Gods Laws into your heart? Sometimes from your criticism of my words I think it is so.

SG

No. I don't know why you don't recognize what I say.

Either work at the law.

Or Walk in the Spirit.

One or the other.


You HAVE to turn from one to do the other.

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Where do you get the idea that walking in the Spirit is doing nothing?

How come workers at the law never understand Rest in Christ?

Do you not equate the "Yoke" / works of Yahshua, Righteousness rest?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are fighting true faith EG...

I am not fighting anything, I am just exposing a false belief

Your time in your doctrine is not what is important. there are professing Christians of 60 years who finally find the truth and begin their walk.

Even the criminal on the cross came to the light in the moments before his death.

Never, ever, think you cannot learn and abandon error EG. I hope my words do not offend you and I hope you do find the light that you call darkness, but you have walls. Never, ever allow walls to keep you from Yahshua liberty and love of Gods perfect will! I have walked in the "Let Go and Let God" before and it was seemingly amazing except I was not growing in the stature of Christ. It is a deceptive, alluring lie. Does God work in us to will and to do of His good pleasure? Yes, But His good pleasure, His will, are His righteous requirements! Know them and find the Love for them through the Holy Spirit!

SG

lol..

The law has done its job in me, I do not need to follow something I can not fulfill in the first place.

You keep screaming I am apposed to truth, yet when I show you the truth about the law. ( what its purpose is, and HOW we live in a way in whcih we are not breaking it) You ignore it and refuse to even look at it.

 

[Grandpa]

No that is ignoring what I have been saying nearly every post in the topic.

That Jesus is our light, example, interpreter, Shepherd, etc.

John 13:15, “For I (Jesus) gave you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.”

Jesus gave PERFECT example of the way His followers are supposed to live.

Yes He did.

Just two small problems. You are not Christ.

And you are not perfect.


So you must rely on His Strength and not your own. Just like all the Christians before you. Just like Paul explains in all of his epistles.

 

[DeighAnn]

Quote from Grandpa to my question of which law he was referring to.

They are both the same. To you.[/QUOTE]


How very rude, yet once again. How very wrong you are, again and again and again, on purpose, for certain. Not really the spirit one should expect from a person calling themselves a "Christian" is it? It is the spirit expected from your posts though, I have come to find.
You wish to promote a law that was replaced by the dying of our Lord, above the law He died to bring us. You wish to keep all those you encounter under the law that has no way to forgive, knowing Jesus brought us forgiveness. Repent and receive forgivness, the message of our Lord and Saviour. Worst of all it would seem, you do it all for the sake of your personal side of an "argument and debate". There can be not doubt as to what your goals are and they are not forwarding the truth of the Word. You must be one that thinks that things will go on as they always have.

 

[Xiaokang78]

It seems to me that the Mosaic Law was temporary. The law set the stage for the Messiah to enter the world and legally die for our sins. It was a ‘womb’ of sorts. If the Mosaic Law was intended to be continuous through history then it would have been present prior to Moses. Abraham didn’t keep the principles of the Mosaic Law. I doubt the mysterious Melchizedek lived under the Law. Job? Noah? Enoch? Adam? The Law was meant to be done away with once it was fulfilled. We live under a different law now, the Law of Grace.

 

[SimpleGardner]

I am not fighting anything, I am just exposing a false belief



lol..

The law has done its job in me, I do not need to follow something I can not fulfill in the first place.

You keep screaming I am apposed to truth, yet when I show you the truth about the law. ( what its purpose is, and HOW we live in a way in whcih we are not breaking it) You ignore it and refuse to even look at it.

I am not speaking of "following the Law" EG. I am speaking of submitting to the Holy Spirit. The rest is academic as it is said. Once you concede to the leading and indwelling of the Holy Spirit you will be led to follow the Laws of Yahshua and the Commandments of God out of sincere joy and love. This is what I'm talking about. When that happens you will cease to denigrate others who are walking like this too, and you will find deepening fellowship with Yahshua and the Father.

SG

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: Read again: 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

If the apostles meant what you think they meant they would have written: For now we give you guys only a few teachings; you'll be taught more in the synagogues.

But isn't that what was said? it's not what I think, it's literally what's written.

The passage you reference here was the letter of the council's judgment to be spread city to city. But the council gives the reason for that judgment amongst themselves earlier in verse 21 like I referenced in my last post.

There's no need to interpret or assume what the council's reason were because they literally tell us.

Let's read once more:

It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:

They are talking about what would be required of Christians for their entire lives, not about teaching programs. The Council of Jerusalem was a very important event, not a teachers' meeting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not speaking of "following the Law" EG. I am speaking of submitting to the Holy Spirit. The rest is academic as it is said. Once you concede to the leading and indwelling of the Holy Spirit you will be led to follow the Laws of Yahshua and the Commandments of God out of sincere joy and love. This is what I'm talking about. When that happens you will cease to denigrate others who are walking like this too, and you will find deepening fellowship with Yahshua and the Father.

SG

yet you continue to push law

see you did it here. You say that I WILL BE LED To FOLLOW LAWS

No I will not

I WILL BE LED TO LOVE PEOPLE. and BY LOVING PEOPLE. I WILL NOT BREAK LAWS.

see how we come at it from different sides?

you push following laws and I push learning to LOVE as GOD LOVED ME? so I will BY NATURE not break laws.

 

[Grandpa]

Do you not equate the "Yoke" / works of Yahshua, Righteousness rest?

I can see you are very confused.

Let's just talk about the difference between rest and work.

Rest is ceasing from work, right?


Well the Lord doesn't cause us to cease from all work. Just the work that is too hard for us. Trying to be righteous by the law. That's why He says "you who are burdened and heavily laden".

Once we turn away from our work at the law and turn to Christ and His Rest then we can be the workmanship of God.

Then we can work doing Gods Will and not our own.