Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[eternally-gratefull]

What? Wow.

OK here we go:

Luke 24:44-45, " 44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,"

Matt 5: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

the law and the prophets are mentioned.

The most prophesied thing in the old testament is Jesus 2nd coming.

You seem to have forgotten where this got started.

The context is the law of Moses, NOT prophecy or was I missing something?

"Until all is fulfilled" is hard to understand, that's why I follow Paul. He was our apostle and everything he wrote applies to us (the Gentiles). Paul tells us numerous times not to keep the Law of Moses and this is enough for me. Or should I disregard him?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Agreed the law did bring us to repentance and the Father brought us to Christ, but if that were the end of it then why is it all through the scripture that the magnificence of God's plan was to bring men to the place where His Holy Spirit would "Write His Laws Upon Our Hearts!? Certainly this is the long awaited victory over sin! This is the long awaited release from the sting of death! This is what the anointing of the Holy Spirit does for us and it is through a change of relationship with the law where it is no longer "work" but "a Joy!" BUT there it is...The Law is still at the center of it all!

SG

Yet paul told us the purpose of the law was to bring us to christ, And AFTER it has done its job, we are no longer under a schoomaster

MOSES also stated that in order to follow the law. WE MUST OBEY EVERY WORD.

which means following the law is impossible. (except for Christ who FULFILLED the law)

once again, WHY can you not comprehend this biblical fact?

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: You didn't answer my question: Do you go to a synagogue to learn how to keep the law of Moses. And remember: the rabbi has to be a Pharisee, not Sadducee, Essene or whatever else.

No I do not. The principle of God's law are not taught in these places. Back in Jesus day they did still teach God's law, but they also taught their own tradition.

Just like every church I have even been to, they tech Jesus but each one also has their own man made customs too.

With that said, anyone who teaches God's law, Jesus words, prophecies yes I will hear them out for sure. It is up to me to submit to the holy Spirit and discern what is true and what is not.

So, you are not doing what you believe Jesus wants us to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok. I guess it depends on how Grandpa means "following the savior" since he first mentioned the phrase. But the way I took his meaning is "follow his actions and example"; all of the above.

In terms of the belief that no one can follow Christ's actions, I differ. I believe every single person who receives the Holy Spirit can do everything Christ did, and even greater things than He's done (John 14:12).

but how can they follow those things

by following some law

or by having the mind which is in christ?

 

[PS]

How do you "walk" in the Spirit without doing anything? Paul compared it to running which is work. You float around on a cloud doing nothing?

It is a different mind set.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I do not. The principle of God's law are not taught in these places. Back in Jesus day they did still teach God's law, but they also taught their own tradition.

Just like every church I have even been to, they tech Jesus but each one also has their own man made customs too.

With that said, anyone who teaches God's law, Jesus words, prophecies yes I will hear them out for sure. It is up to me to submit to the holy Spirit and discern what is true and what is not.

its up for all to do this

it is also up for us all not to assume we know all truth, and we may not be wrong.

 

[Yahshua]

Read again:

28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

If the apostles meant what you think they meant they would have written: For now we give you guys only a few teachings; you'll be taught more in the synagogues.

But isn't that what was said? it's not what I think, it's literally what's written.

The passage you reference here was the letter of the council's judgment to be spread city to city. But the council gives the reason for that judgment amongst themselves earlier in verse 21 like I referenced in my last post.

There's no need to interpret or assume what the council's reason were because they literally tell us.

 

[NayborBear]

How you practice what you preach is very much about you.

You were doing so well talking about how you apply the law in your daily activities!
Here's another commandment, do you practice this? If so what actions do you take?
Deuteronomy 13: 6. If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife of your heart, or the friend who is as dear to you as your life, working on you secretly says to you, Let us go and give worship to other gods, strange to you and to your fathers; 7. Gods of the peoples round about you, near or far, from one end of the earth to the other; 8. Do not be guided by him or give attention to him; have no pity on him or mercy, and give him no cover; 9. But put him to death without question; let your hand be the first stretched out against him to put him to death, and then the hands of all the people.


I believe that would be a false dichotomy, or maybe it's a false trichotomy?

This would sure make for a much "different" planet. Wouldn't it?
It is precisely this type of "dedication", and "loyalty", and "obedience", to "a religion", that has the WHOLE WORLD SCARED OF "islamic jihad!"

Sad, ain't it? Christians take only PART of what Jesus taught concerning "loving your enemies." Yet don't take ONE STEP, or "action", when it comes to "overturning the money changers." Even within one's OWN "personal" Temple!
Matthew 23
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

So go on ahead and keep trying to "pigeon hole" that which are so obviously not understanding, into tearing. and shredding to make it fit into something you would understand. However wrongly or damning these efforts do to yourself.
Can you say scribe? Pharasee? Accuser of the Brethren?
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 

[Yahshua]

but how can they follow those things

by following some law

or by having the mind which is in christ?

I guess before they can tackle questions like these they have to tackle whether they even believe they can follow the savior (in action and example)...because if they don't believe it's even possible; if belief isn't there, then it doesn't really matter how.

I'm reminded of a scene during Christ's ministry when he couldn't perform many miracles in a town because the people didn't believe. Here was the Son of the living God, creator of heaven and earth in their presence, unable to perform many miracles for them because the people didn't believe.

So having the Holy Spirit or the Law or the Mind of Christ won't matter if one doesn't even believe it's possible to do all that He did, possessing those very same things in the very same flesh from Adam.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I guess before they can tackle questions like these they have to tackle whether they even believe they can follow the savior (in action and example)...because if they don't believe it's even possible; if belief isn't there, then it doesn't really matter how.

Are we talking about believing we can follow jesus, or follow the law?

I believe I can follow jesus, but I am not FOOLISH enough to think I can follow the law

I'm reminded of a scene during Christ's ministry when he couldn't perform many miracles in a town because the people didn't believe. Here was the Son of the living God, creator of heaven and earth in their presence, unable to perform many miracles for them because the people didn't believe.

So having the Holy Spirit or the Law or the Mind of Christ won't matter if one doesn't even believe it's possible to do all that He did, possessing those very same things in the very same flesh from Adam.

Again.

Are we talking about doing what Jesus did, (I even believe I can do all jesus did if it is in his will, even the miracles he performed)

or are we talking about the law?

Two different things.

 

[Yahshua]

Are we talking about believing we can follow jesus, or follow the law?

I believe I can follow jesus, but I am not FOOLISH enough to think I can follow the law



Again.

Are we talking about doing what Jesus did, (I even believe I can do all jesus did if it is in his will, even the miracles he performed)

or are we talking about the law?

Two different things.

[...]his example[...]

his actions and everything he did (which no one can do. because no one is perfect)

if we MUST follow his actions. we have no hope.

^This.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

^This.

he was perfect. Can you be perfect?

 

[SimpleGardner]

you can not keep the law

Why can't you admit that?

(Gal 2:20 KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Until you stop denying the life Yahshua came to give us, through us, you will continue to think and ask the same questions which indicate you are not "in Christ".

Do you deny the claim of Paul;?

(Php 4:13 KJV) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[Yahshua]

he was perfect. Can you be perfect?

I appreciate you asking "can you" instead of "are you".

"I can do all things through Christ who gives me the strength" (Philippians 4:13). Yes, with everything Christ has given us I believe we can be perfect. That's the goal: "unto a perfect man" (Ephesians 4:13).

Otherwise, what don't we have now that He had when he was walking in this flesh approx. 2000 years ago?

The only thing I can think of that we're missing is His level of belief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

(Gal 2:20 KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


Until you stop denying the life Yahshua came to give us, through us, you will continue to think and ask the same questions which indicate you are not "in Christ".

Do you deny the claim of Paul;?

(Php 4:13 KJV) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Deuteronomy 27:26

‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Are you trying to tell me you obey every word? perfectly?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I appreciate you asking "can you" instead of "are you".

"I can do all things through Christ who gives me the strength" (Philippians 4:13). Yes, with everything Christ has given us I believe we can be perfect. That's the goal: "unto a perfect man" (Ephesians 4:13).

Otherwise, what don't we have now that He had when he was walking in this flesh approx. 2000 years ago?

1 John 1:8

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

How do you resolve the fact that John says we can not be perfect. and if we say we are we are deceived,

and the fact you think we CAN obey the law according to the requirment of said law?

 

[SimpleGardner]

Yet paul told us the purpose of the law was to bring us to christ, And AFTER it has done its job, we are no longer under a schoomaster

MOSES also stated that in order to follow the law. WE MUST OBEY EVERY WORD.

which means following the law is impossible. (except for Christ who FULFILLED the law)

once again, WHY can you not comprehend this biblical fact?

What you keep saying over and over and over is that the law brings "US" to Christ.

Then what happens to that "US"?

(2Co 5:17 KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(Gal 2:20 KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

"US" is gone, on the cross, dead, IF YE BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT!

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The "US" is gone EG, but the NEW CREATION is alive "in Christ" and is not "Under The Law" but is in unison with it!

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Ye, being the NEW CREATION. You keep speaking of only "US"/the old man. You need to become that "NEW CREATION" and it will all then make sense, because the "US" the "Old Man" is carnally minded and cannot comprehend the things I am talking about;

(Rom 8:4 KJV) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5 KJV) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6 KJV) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7 KJV) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8 KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9 KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I care about you EG, I want for you what Yahshua died to bring you into.


SG

 

[SimpleGardner]

Deuteronomy 27:26

‘Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Are you trying to tell me you obey every word? perfectly?

What does that have to do with having the laws of God written on my heart to do them?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What you keep saying over and over and over is that the law brings "US" to Christ.

Then what happens to that "US"?

(2Co 5:17 KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

(Gal 2:20 KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

"US" is gone, on the cross, dead, IF YE BE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT!

Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The "US" is gone EG, but the NEW CREATION is alive "in Christ" and is not "Under The Law" but is in unison with it!

Gal_5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Ye, being the NEW CREATION. You keep speaking of only "US"/the old man. You need to become that "NEW CREATION" and it will all then make sense, because the "US" the "Old Man" is carnally minded and cannot comprehend the things I am talking about;

(Rom 8:4 KJV) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5 KJV) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6 KJV) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7 KJV) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8 KJV) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9 KJV) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

I care about you EG, I want for you what Yahshua died to bring you into.


SG

i was brought to Christ 40 years ago. i am not being brought to him, I found him, and he has been teaching me ever since The schoolmaster did what it was supposed to do.

I care about you also and it worries me you have not yet found christ (so it seems)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does that have to do with having the laws of God written on my heart to do them?

That is the requirement of the law my friend,

either you live up to this standard, or you are NOT following the law as required