Not By Works
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So the results of salvation are not part of salvation? So being kept is not one of the Works GOD does in accomplishing our eternal salvation?
What is the purpose of Christ’s present intercession for us? Not to keep us saved, right? So on to part two. If Christ’s mediation is not to keep us saved, I’ll agree with that for now, what is it’s purpose?
What is the purpose of Christ’s present intercession for us? Not to keep us saved, right? So on to part two. If Christ’s mediation is not to keep us saved, I’ll agree with that for now, what is it’s purpose?
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This is why OSAS cannot safely be preached. It leads to this careless attitude. Granted you are the only one to let the cat out the bag. But this is what most popular OSAS pastors on TV are saying. I dare not say most OSAS advocates, since I cannot know the hearts and minds of people, but based on what is going on in professing Christianity today, I can make an educated guess. Christian yoga? No problem, all things are lawful. Name the sin "all things are lawful, no problem". For anyone to even suggest fornication is lawful and a Christian is not a fornicator if he fornicates is just...unbelievable and shows where we are. I cannot believe someone would say that? Never in Church history ......
Did you check the context btw, it does not say fornication is lawful to you. This is a serious error, I hope you read the entire chapter and notice that just prior to saying that Paul gives many warnings about what happened to israel and how God slayed them in the wilderness and tells us its a warning for US as well. Here is the context:
19Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too. 22Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
All to God’s Glory
23“Everything is permissible,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible,” but not everything is edifying. 24No one should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.”
If we fornicate we are indeed fornicators, God is not playing games, God called out fornicators in the church, read Revelation chapter 2, 1 cor 6:9, letters to the churches. Paul's warnings are sent to Churches, as the letters themselves declare, what you are saying is gnosticism. Where all sin is in the flesh, but the soul/spirit spotless, so you can sin and it wont affect the soul. Text-book gnosticism. Very dangerous early heresy, debunked the epistles of John, I suggest everyone reads those. It was defeated but has made a comeback recently with Christian TV, and people don't recognize it since so much time has passed from the gnostic "hay-day".
Did you check the context btw, it does not say fornication is lawful to you. This is a serious error, I hope you read the entire chapter and notice that just prior to saying that Paul gives many warnings about what happened to israel and how God slayed them in the wilderness and tells us its a warning for US as well. Here is the context:
19Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too. 22Are we trying to provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than He?
All to God’s Glory
23“Everything is permissible,” but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible,” but not everything is edifying. 24No one should seek his own good, but the good of others.
25Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.”
If we fornicate we are indeed fornicators, God is not playing games, God called out fornicators in the church, read Revelation chapter 2, 1 cor 6:9, letters to the churches. Paul's warnings are sent to Churches, as the letters themselves declare, what you are saying is gnosticism. Where all sin is in the flesh, but the soul/spirit spotless, so you can sin and it wont affect the soul. Text-book gnosticism. Very dangerous early heresy, debunked the epistles of John, I suggest everyone reads those. It was defeated but has made a comeback recently with Christian TV, and people don't recognize it since so much time has passed from the gnostic "hay-day".
It does prove that easy believism and ancient gnosticism are close. Paul did not preach that, Paul preached the same message as Jesus and rest of the Apostles. Peter warned about Paul's letters about how people wrest them, and oh they have. Almost all heresies we have today are from misunderstanding or deliberate twisting of Paul's letters.
Not a wise thing to say that about 'what a man had to say'. You just disqualified yourself (and everyone else in the world) as someone worthy of listening to by saying that. Time to reconsider? These men are not apostles, but they are men who dedicated their life to Christ, so they are more worthy to listen to in this subject, they lived then, we do not. They have access to the situation back then, which is why I quoted him.
Not a wise thing to say that about 'what a man had to say'. You just disqualified yourself (and everyone else in the world) as someone worthy of listening to by saying that. Time to reconsider? These men are not apostles, but they are men who dedicated their life to Christ, so they are more worthy to listen to in this subject, they lived then, we do not. They have access to the situation back then, which is why I quoted him.
I am not conflating anything pal....being justified, sanctified positionally and sealed BY FAITH = SAVED....
Look......do not address me.....I am done with you and your modus operandi!
I will end up getting banned or stroking out if I have to deal with you while being constrained by the rules of this site and or those who hover over it enforcing the rules <--not mouthing or have an issue, just stating facts J.....
Look......do not address me.....I am done with you and your modus operandi!
I will end up getting banned or stroking out if I have to deal with you while being constrained by the rules of this site and or those who hover over it enforcing the rules <--not mouthing or have an issue, just stating facts J.....
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It proves nothing....Paul preached the grace of Christ out bounding our sin, salvation, justification, sealed and sanctified positionally by FAITH ALONE and PAUL was accused by the religiously inept law keepers and Pharisees of the same thing MANY accuse of to this very day.....!!!
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Yes the reformed churches still insist on holiness.
I have no issue with people believing that, but I would like to ask you: When the Scriptures talk about 'departing from the living God' and 'departing from the faith', how can that happen if you werent in it to begin with? If you werent 'truly saved' how can you leave? They went out from us because they were not of us does not fit into this situation either(context: antichrists in the church who didnt believe Jesus came in the flesh) because 'departing from the living God' wouldn't indicate they never were of us.
I have no issue with people believing that, but I would like to ask you: When the Scriptures talk about 'departing from the living God' and 'departing from the faith', how can that happen if you werent in it to begin with? If you werent 'truly saved' how can you leave? They went out from us because they were not of us does not fit into this situation either(context: antichrists in the church who didnt believe Jesus came in the flesh) because 'departing from the living God' wouldn't indicate they never were of us.
Very good question. They went out from us, they part of the visible, local “churches/assemblies visible church, which is made up of both believers and non believers, see parable of wheat and Tares) , but were not of us, they were not part of Christ’s elect, the invisible church
As far as the others, you would have to provide scriptures so I can examine them in context
Thanks
As far as the others, you would have to provide scriptures so I can examine them in context
Thanks
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Very few people are advocating circumcision today, or torah obedience as the pharisees did.
What people are talking about is love for Jesus and His commandments:
1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Here we have it all covered, keeping His commandments is key, otherwise we dont know Him and are liars. We have to fellowship with Him and walk in the light, and we will be cleansed from all sin.
John writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit knew someone would come along and say "Are you perfect 100% of the time? Gotcha you are not obedient!" so in the midst of all that, it says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and truth isn't in us. Proving nobody is perfect. Nobody is perfect in judgment, but clearly John here isn't talking about murder, "If we say we have no sin"?? Since John later says no murderer has eternal life in them, hating a brother is serious.
What we have today is: Nobody is perfect, therefore nobody can obey, all sin is the same, might as well. If anyone says a thing, they are cussed out as Pharisees, despite the many exhortations to rebuke exhort and turn brothers from sin to save them.
And dont say it doesn't happen I have seen it!
What people are talking about is love for Jesus and His commandments:
1 John 1:6-9
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 2:3-4
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Here we have it all covered, keeping His commandments is key, otherwise we dont know Him and are liars. We have to fellowship with Him and walk in the light, and we will be cleansed from all sin.
John writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit knew someone would come along and say "Are you perfect 100% of the time? Gotcha you are not obedient!" so in the midst of all that, it says if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and truth isn't in us. Proving nobody is perfect. Nobody is perfect in judgment, but clearly John here isn't talking about murder, "If we say we have no sin"?? Since John later says no murderer has eternal life in them, hating a brother is serious.
What we have today is: Nobody is perfect, therefore nobody can obey, all sin is the same, might as well. If anyone says a thing, they are cussed out as Pharisees, despite the many exhortations to rebuke exhort and turn brothers from sin to save them.
And dont say it doesn't happen I have seen it!
let me answer you like this-
this is from a pastor, heard it many years ago ( paraphrase )
" when a person truly comes to Christ, they receive the Holy Sprit. so, they have the Sprit and the flesh. so, then what does the person do? which one do they exercise?
if one exercises the Sprit, then the flesh get weaker and weaker. if one does the opposite, then the opposite happens.
so, a lot of people are truly saved, but they have a strong flesh, and a weak Sprit. we all should have the opposite'"
so, there you are.
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