Not By Works

[Macabeus]

I think some people like the attention.../QUOTE]

Judging motives is not something one should do. I am bringing non combative posts as once fallen requested

 

[Macabeus]

I do apologize for my part in the fracas yesterday, LS. I should have been more patient. I get frustrated because people accuse me of believing things terrible l I don’t believe, but no excuse for some of the things I said.

The whole disagreement between myself and others has to do with a difference of views on regeneration

107,509 May shed some light on what I have been saying, God willing. If you feel like it, answer the questions there to yourself, and then apply the answers to what I have been saying. I believe there is a truth there that is being missed by some, that is, what is descriptive of one who has been regenerated by God

@Lightskin. Did you see this post?

 

[Macabeus]

A. Does one who hates his brother have eternal life. (1John 3:15)

B. Why or why not ( 1 John 3:14)

Answers

a. No

B. Because they passed from death to life.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law.We love because we passed from death to life. Love of God, love of neighbor, love of the House of God

Passing from death to life is regeneration. Regeneration transforms our nature. Not perfected yet, not sinless, but different. New nature

This is what I have been saying. Not works salvation, other than the work God does, is doing, and will do until the work He began in us is complete

And faithful is He to complete the work He began in us.

 

[Lightskin]

Read 1 John 3:-14-15

A. Does one who hates his brother have eternal life. (1John 3:15)

B. Why or why not ( 1 John 3:14)

I am replacing fornication with hate to make a point, not trying argue or say something negative

I sometimes think about your typical mafia tough guy, very Italian, very Catholic. They kill people from time to time because it’s their “job”. Do such people have salvation? I say no because there two allegiances are to the Catholic Church and the mafia, not Christ.

Would someone who’s allegiance is to Christ live such a lifestyle? It’s improbable but not impossible. Would such a person have salvation? Yes because we are saved by grace through faith.

 

[Lightskin]

@Lightskin. Did you see this post?

I saw it but stayed clear of it. I’ll apologize when I truly mean it, otherwise my apology won’t be sincere. And when I do apologize, which I will, it will be in a PM and you can rest assured it will be heartfelt with the love of Christ.

 

[KJV1611]

I did all kinds of things in the past, but then grace appeared bringing forgiveness and teaching me to deny ungodly lusts. Am I perfect in this? No, but I’m heading in the right direction, not just staying in my rebellion.

So if the grace that has appeared to all men has taught you, if you have learned of God, you are no longer a fornicator.

He that is able to understand, let him understand

I understand that ALL THINGS are lawful for me... I don't think you're grasping that.

As I said, I fornicated as a born again Christian. I married the girl and will be celebrating 20 glorious years of marriage this December.

Now would you have ever thought that God would bless a FORNICATOR so much as to send him the true love of his life?

What do you make of this?

Trust me my friend, you're just as wicked as the Apostle Paul was and everybody else on this forum... You're lying to yourself which is a sin.

 

[Macabeus]

I sometimes think about your typical mafia tough guy, very Italian, very Catholic. They kill people from time to time because it’s their “job”. Do such people have salvation? I say no because there two allegiances are to the Catholic Church and the mafia, not Christ.

Would someone who’s allegiance is to Christ live such a lifestyle? It’s improbable but not impossible. Would such a person have salvation? Yes because we are saved by grace through faith.

Consider this...

Grace preserves. Even when we sin, even when we may lapse for years, grace preserves. How? By the power of God and the mediation of Christ. If it was just a matter of “I was justified 20 years ago, so I am osas, because I believed 20 years ago,” we would not need to be kept by the power of God unto salvation.

It is not a work (believing) that saves us. It is the grace of God that saves us from first to last

This is the starting point of my position. Tell me, if you wish, what you agree with and what you don’t. If you don’t want to, we are at a logjam and no point proceeding.

In fact you can answer and we can stop too. I just would kind of like your thoughts on the above

 

[Macabeus]

I saw it but stayed clear of it. I’ll apologize when I truly mean it, otherwise my apology won’t be sincere. And when I do apologize, which I will, it will be in a PM and you can rest assured it will be heartfelt with the love of Christ.

I thought you deserved a public apology, not saying I want the same. I do not require any apology, just wanted to try to make it right. And it was sincere andvhesrtfelt

 

[Lightskin]

Consider this...

Grace preserves. Even when we sin, even when we may lapse for years, grace preserves. How? By the power of God and the mediation of Christ. If it was just a matter of “I was justified 20 years ago, so I am osas, because I believed 20 years ago,” we would not need to be kept by the power of God unto salvation.

It is not a work (believing) that saves us. It is the grace of God that saves us from first to last

This is the starting point of my position. Tell me, if you wish, what you agree with and what you domt

If you were justified 20 years ago (that sounds like a reference to KJV) then you are justified today.

 

[Macabeus]

If you were justified 20 years ago (that sounds like a reference to KJV) then you are justified today.

Agreed. Justification is one time. No disagreement here. So then what power of God keeps us unto salvation. What is your view of preservation?

 

[Lightskin]

Agreed. So then what power of God keeps us unto salvation. What is your view of preservation?

The power of the Cross. It’s forever.

 

[Macabeus]

The power of the Cross. It’s forever.

Is it the cross that has the power, or the one who died on it and rose again.

How does Jesus KEEP His sheep, so that they cannot be lost? Which we both heartily affirm

Is preservation a continual work of God?

 

[dcontroversal]

Guys (and gals) I'm starting to see a lot of reported posts out of this thread again and is usual, some of the persons reporting posts are far from innocent themselves. This is a reminder to argue the opinions, not the opinion holders. I'm seeing a lot of name calling recently (liar, hypocrite, etc) which is unnecessary, detracts from the topic, and degrades the thread.

Thanks boss......will try to do better and not respond to those I have in ignore.....thanks for keeping us in line J....

 

[KJV1611]

The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and to live soberly and righteously in this present age.

So those who are taught by the grace of God are progressively denying ungodliness and learning to live right, not sinless, but walking in the Spirit

Yep and since you're one of those "who are taught by the grace of God" could you explain how you fit in 1 John 3:9?

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you commit sin? Yes you do.
Does that mean your'e not born of God? I'll let you answer that.

You seem to be a "master of Israel", can you tell us what the following means.

• That which is born of God does not sin.
• His seed remaineth in him.
• HE CANNOT sin because he is born of God.

 

[StanwayTheSilent]

So how could a person, controlled by the Spirit, and setting His mind on things of the Spirit, (which according to Romans 8:1-9 is a mark of EVERYONE in whom the Spirit of Christ dwells albeit of course we know not perfectly) possibly live 50 years ignoring the things of the Spirit?

How would that be "setting one's mind on the things of the Spirit"? see Romans 8:5 and how could it be said that the Spirit of Christ dwells in them (see Romans 8:9)

They can't. They either walk as a slave of righteousness, or unrighteousness. It's as simple as that.
When indwelt by the Spirit of Christ, a believer is filled by the fruits of the Spirit of God (love), - the fullfilment of law, and this brings out works of righteousness, either seen or unseen - until the day of judgement.

I do not believe one word that comes out of your double tongued mouth.....

YES or NO......if a man trusts JESUS by faith and is saved yet does NO works for 50 years is he saved or not

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Hello Dcontroversal. You are missing out on some very important things here. It is true - we are justified without having to work for it, meaning - we do not come to the faith and justification before God by observation of law as a way of life and righteousness, as the jews still try to do. The law condemns us, and points us to the only one that can rescue, Jesus Christ.

With Christ, you die to the law, and the ways of unrighteousness, and awaken to righteousness, when filled by the Spirit of Christ. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit - this is very important to understand, - (meaning you will also produce the other fruits.)

Remember that it is written, and told by Jesus Christ himself - that all men will know we are His disciples by the love we have for each other. Remember also that it is possible to have believed in vain, - examples of this is found in the book of James.

God is a powerful God, and the Spirit of Christ within the believer fills the believers with fruits of love, - the fulfillment of law, God whom is love, Himself, - and these fruits produces works, because love is action, and selfless. Jesus says that we are to lay down our lives, as He did for us, and that we are His friends if we do this. It is not possible to be one with Jesus Christ, if you are not walking in righteousness, - because if you do not walk in righteousness, you are walking in darkness, and do not have fellowship with Christ within you - out of sync with the Spirit of God. It is written that "we love, because He first loved us."

So the example you are fighting for - if that person does NO works for 50 years, that person has believed in vain. For you do one or the other, you are either a slave to righteousness, or unrighteousness. If you are a slave to righteousness, you will work the works of love, and your works will in many cases be seen - because love is selfless, and unrighteousness focuses on the self.
Love is not self seeking, but others seeking. Faith must produce good works, (we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works) - because faith is a fruit of the Spirit of God. If you are truly filled with the Spirit of God, you will - "walk even as He walked, and love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:17-18
17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

The works of God is believing in Jesus Christ, for from the faith in Christ - the fellowship with Christ is found, and when you are full of the fruits of Christ within, - your life will be overflowing also with the "good works we are created to do in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 5:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[KJV1611]

thats demonic doctrine. fornication is never lawful.. you took that out of context its talking about foods lolz

What did Paul "really mean" lol. All things are lawful BUT..... I didn't see the but in that verse. And I'm out of here!

 

[Macabeus]

The power of the Cross. It’s forever.

Agreed. But does that mean there is no active, present work where the LORD , the triune God, preserves us

 

[Macabeus]

Yep and since you're one of those "who are taught by the grace of God" could you explain how you fit in 1 John 3:9?

1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Do you commit sin? Yes you do.
Does that mean your'e not born of God? I'll let you answer that.

You seem to be a "master of Israel", can you tell us what the following means.

• That which is born of God does not sin.
• His seed remaineth in him.
• HE CANNOT sin because he is born of God.

Im no master. I’m a layman at a church that teaches the entire Word of God. As to your question. Are you familiar with grammatical tenses?

 

[Lightskin]

Agreed. But does that mean there is no active, present work where the LORD , the triune God, preserves us

Who’s work, ours or God’s?

 

[dcontroversal]

They can't. They either walk as a slave of righteousness, or unrighteousness. It's as simple as that.
When indwelt by the Spirit of Christ, a believer is filled by the fruits of the Spirit of God (love), - the fullfilment of law, and this brings out works of righteousness, either seen or unseen - until the day of judgement.



Hello Dcontroversal. You are missing out on some very important things here. It is true - we are justified without having to work for it, meaning - we do not come to the faith and justification before God by observation of law as a way of life and righteousness, as the jews still try to do. The law condemns us, and points us to the only one that can rescue, Jesus Christ.

With Christ, you die to the law, and the ways of unrighteousness, and awaken to righteousness, when filled by the Spirit of Christ. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit - this is very important to understand, - (meaning you will also produce the other fruits.)

Remember that it is written, and told by Jesus Christ himself - that all men will know we are His disciples by the love we have for each other. Remember also that it is possible to have believed in vain, - examples of this is found in the book of James.

God is a powerful God, and the Spirit of Christ within the believer fills the believers with fruits of love, - the fulfillment of law, God whom is love, Himself, - and these fruits produces works, because love is action, and selfless. Jesus says that we are to lay down our lives, as He did for us, and that we are His friends if we do this. It is not possible to be one with Jesus Christ, if you are not walking in righteousness, - because if you do not walk in righteousness, you are walking in darkness, and do not have fellowship with Christ within you - out of sync with the Spirit of God. It is written that "we love, because He first loved us."

So the example you are fighting for - if that person does NO works for 50 years, that person has believed in vain. For you do one or the other, you are either a slave to righteousness, or unrighteousness. If you are a slave to righteousness, you will work the works of love, and your works will in many cases be seen - because love is selfless, and unrighteousness focuses on the self.
Love is not self seeking, but others seeking. Faith must produce good works, (we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works) - because faith is a fruit of the Spirit of God. If you are truly filled with the Spirit of God, you will - "walk even as He walked, and love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:17-18
17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

The works of God is believing in Jesus Christ, for from the faith in Christ - the fellowship with Christ is found, and when you are full of the fruits of Christ within, - your life will be overflowing also with the "good works we are created to do in Christ Jesus."

Galatians 5:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Take it up with the following....and I am leaving nothing out....read the thread....

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness