Not By Works

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Macabeus said:
Like I said, WORKS FOLLOW SALVATION

Did you happen to miss that? The crux of the entire post?

Justified by faith ALONE, works follow out of love and gratitude

Just like fire produces smoke

Your post is a textbook example of what GB9 calls being proved wrong. You say exactly what I said, and then accuse me of not saying it. :LOL:
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Not hardly pal......nice try...more proof you cannot read or are just obstinate......does not work means exactly that......works or no works faith = saved <---you do not believe this.....you MUST have works that follow and have stated as much.....back to the bin.....address me when you can be honest

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
 
Macabeus said:
What if a person completely ignores Ephesians 2:10 and Titus 2:11-15 and completely disregards God's will and what He has FOREORDAINED for that person? Well, to be honest, I never considered that a question worthy of a Christian to ask. We should not focus on how much we can disobey and still be saved, we should focus on God's purpose for us in love

Your question completely misses the purpose of Grace. See Titus 2:11-15. "Grace has appeared TEACHING US..."

If grace is not teaching a person, then they do not know Grace. 1 Timothy 2:12 verifies it

Salvation first, the rest follows, like fire follows smoke.
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SEE.....how sly you peddle faith plus works for.......it is obvious to all pal........
 
dcontroversal said:
Not hardly pal......nice try...more proof you cannot read or are just obstinate......does not work means exactly that......works or no works faith = saved <---you do not believe this.....you MUST have works that follow and have stated as much.....back to the bin.....address me when you can be honest

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
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Nope, you forgot that I already explained to you that good works are DESCRIPTIVE of a saved person, not prescriptive of what one needs to do to be saved. And when I explained that to you, you somewhat agreed with me. Why are you waffling and flip flopping now?
 
dcontroversal said:
No you don't agree with me......you peddle faith plus works for........my bible states that even if one does not work their FAITH is credited as righteousness.......
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Nope, I said saved by faith ALONE, works follow as a result of our REGENERATION, NEW NATURE.

IT IS GOD WHO works in us both to will and to do of His Good pleasure.

Everything I have said are DESCRIPTIVE, not prescriptive statements. :)
 
dcontroversal said:
SEE.....how sly you peddle faith plus works for.......it is obvious to all pal........
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NOPE. Everything in that post was DESCRIPTIVE and none of it was PRESCRIPTIVE.

Did you forget the difference again?

Stop arguing with people who believe in salvation BY FAITH THROUGH GRACE, ALONE. And know the difference between cause and effect, because you don't seem to know the difference.

Good works are not the cause of salvation, they are the EFFECT of salvation.

Because we love God and love neighbor, because of our and that because of our NEW NATURE.
 
Macabeus said:
Nope, I said saved by faith ALONE, works follow as a result of our REGENERATION, NEW NATURE.

IT IS GOD WHO works in us both to will and to do of His Good pleasure.

Everything I have said are DESCRIPTIVE, not prescriptive statements. :)
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SO......if one does NO WORK after trusting Christ and lives 50 years are they eternally saved and secure in Christ...YES or NO
 
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dcontroversal said:
SO......if one does NO WORK after trusting Christ and lives 50 years are they eternally saved and secure in Christ...YES or NO
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You mean if they spend their whole life living in the flesh instead of the Spirit? Try Romans 8:1-9 to find your answer, particularly verses 5 and 9
 
gb9 said:
here is a companion question to mac baby- if you give your kids a list of things to do, and they do not do it, are they still your kids?
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Yes, but ...

a. Romans 8:9 says that we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if Christ dwells in us.

b. and those who dwell in the Spirit set their minds on things of the Spirit, not on things of the flesh. (Romans 8:5)

c. So if you are in the Spirit, you set your mind on things of the Spirit. It's part of our NEW NATURE.

d. AND you ARE INDEED in the Spirit if the Spirit of Christ lives in you. (Romans 8:9)

e. And if He does not dwell in you, you are not HIS. (Romans 8:9)

So how could one possibly be in the Spirit if they do not mind the things of the Spirit? Romans 8:5 says it is not so.

I'm going to sign off for now. I have answered your questions with scripture and I have not added, embellished or taken away anything from scripture. So there you have it.
 
dcontroversal said:
SO......if one does NO WORK after trusting Christ and lives 50 years are they eternally saved and secure in Christ...YES or NO
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Romans 8:5- Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:9- you, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Simple and plain as day.
 
Macabeus said:
Romans 8:5- Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:9- you, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Simple and plain as day.
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So how could a person, controlled by the Spirit, and setting His mind on things of the Spirit, (which according to Romans 8:1-9 is a mark of EVERYONE in whom the Spirit of Christ dwells albeit of course we know not perfectly) possibly live 50 years ignoring the things of the Spirit?

How would that be "setting one's mind on the things of the Spirit"? see Romans 8:5 and how could it be said that the Spirit of Christ dwells in them (see Romans 8:9)
 
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gb9 said:
what you are speaking of is sanctification , which is AFTER salvation.

as i have told you before, - 2 people who are addicted to drugs come to Christ. both truly believe.

one never uses again. the other takes years to get clean.

is one more " saved " than the other?

no, both are saved by the same thing - belief in Christ.

that is what you legalists fight so hard against- the level playing filed that salvation by faith alone produces.
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Where's the strawman emoji. Someone needs to add one, because 90% of your posts to me are strawman arguments.

It is a strawman to say that I denied or fought against salvation by faith alone. I said salvation by faith alone, with a changed life being the EFFECT of salvation, not the cause.

With attributes listed as DESCRIPTIVE of one who is saved, not prescriptive of what one needs to do to be saved.

The coin has two sides. But you only look at one side.
 
Some of you seem to struggle with reading a person's statements in context to determine if they are making descriptive or prescriptive statements, and whether one is speaking of a cause or effect when they are talking about works. (my posts clearly states works as EFFECTS of salvation, not the cause)

With that difficiency, I don't know how some of you could possibly get your interpretations right when your read the Bible, which has many descriptive and many prescriptive statements, and it is VITAL and essential that we know how to read a passage or a statement and determine WHETHER it is descriptive or prescriptive

Something to work on, folks :)
 
gb9 said:
here is a companion question to mac baby- if you give your kids a list of things to do, and they do not do it, are they still your kids?
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Notice how he is now red x'ing scriptural truths......like I have said numerous times he is a fraud and a deceiver......
 
Macabeus said:
You mean if they spend their whole life living in the flesh instead of the Spirit? Try Romans 8:1-9 to find your answer, particularly verses 5 and 9
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See there ya go.....proof you are a deceiver that embellishes faith with works for salvation...........not what I asked pal....you are such a fraud..the bible answers and you reject it

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
 
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dcontroversal said:
Notice how he is now red x'ing scriptural truths......like I have said numerous times he is a fraud and a deceiver......
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Nope, every one of the posts I xed contained AD HOMINEMS. It is the adhominems (which is your favorite form of argumentation) I am objecting to, not the scriptures
 
dcontroversal said:
See there ya go.....proof you are a deceiver that embellishes faith with works for salvation...........not what I asked pal....you are such a fraud..the bible answers and you reject it

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
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See the ad hominem right there in red. Those are the things that are getting xed. :)

A person who minds the things of the Spirit will not live 50 years barren of any work.
 
Macabeus said:
Nope, every one of the posts I xed contained AD HOMINEMS. It is the adhominems (which is your favorite form of argumentation) I am objecting to, not the scriptures
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I do not believe one word that comes out of your double tongued mouth.....

YES or NO......if a man trusts JESUS by faith and is saved yet does NO works for 50 years is he saved or not

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
 
dcontroversal said:
Notice how he is now red x'ing scriptural truths......like I have said numerous times he is a fraud and a deceiver......
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I will x every post I see that contains an ad hominem or a personal attack from this point on. Feel free to x me if I do an ad hominem or personal attack, which I believe is against the rules of the board. SO why are you breaking the rules?
 
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