I have to say I find it rather odd that Christians would toss out Jesus words, I could see this done by an atheist but I don't understand why done by Christians.
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
- Thread starter Marcelo
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I think what you might be missing, an therefore are finding frustrating, is the time spent kinda hanging back, getting to know what is going on a little bit, checking out the dynamics of the group before just jumping all the way in. I think I did the same thing, because I was very "frustrated" when I first joined (its only been a couple months) but quickly found out I was doing it to myself. You have to find your place and your pace, and once you do, you will find there is a lot to learn, at least there has been for me. I hope you find the joy this should be bringing to you. But remember it isn't about us, It is about the Word of God. This may be the first place a person comes to who is searching for something, or it could be the last. We don't know. What we do know is if you received 10 talents you best be investing them well. Just sayin... Is it ever a waste of time when it is for God? Just slow down, relax
All good advice. My problem is I`m an old fashioned holy roller. I get pretty intense about things. Mostly I`m frustrated by the spam the haters keep throwing up which obscures my posts and stifles my chances of having a real dialogue with somebody. It makes what I am saying hard to follow. I did learn something from a post someone put up. It was actually a significant breakthrough for me.
I understand who John the Baptist would have been if Jesus would have been accepted instead of rejected. As the four gospels are set before us as the King and the kingdom proclaimed and the kingdom and the King rejected or is that the kingdom and the King proclaimed and the King and kingdom rejected? I always forget.
Ok, then you would have to say King first. The King is the One who proclaimed the Kingdom.
Well, the Jews will acknowledge Jesus during this second coming, and Elijah himself is widely acknowledged to be one of the 2 witnesses that will be proclaiming his 2nd coming then.
@ Guojing
I mined an article I wrote for my Yahoo group years and compiled a list of scriptures revealing the difference between Kingdom and Grace. Here it is,
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.” (Luke 13:34-35)
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15)
“He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. And they remembered his words, And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not. Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass. And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. And they talked together of all these things which had happened. And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, today is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?” (Luke 24:6-32)
“The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed. “ (Isaiah 61:1-9)
“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.”(Micah 4:1-8)
“And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.” (Zechariah 14:16-17)
“ But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. “ (Acts 2:16-21)
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)
Also, previous post too long,
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,” (Romans 16:25)
“Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.” (1st Corinthians 2:6-10)
“How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.” (Ephesians 3:3-6)
“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office.” (Romans 11: 7-13)FOURFOLD MINISTRY OF THE LORD AND UNITY
Matthew
4:12-7:29 The KINGDOM Proclaimed
8:1-16:20 The KING Proclaimed
16:21-20:34 The KING rejected
21:1-26:35 The KINGDOM rejected
MARK
1:14-20
1:21
8:31
11:1
LUKE
4:14
5:12
9:22
19:1
JOHN
1:35
5:1
7:1
11:54
FOUR GOSPELS
Matthew Behold THY KING - Royal genealogy
Mark Behold THE SERVANT - No genealogy
Luke Behold THE MAN - human genealogy
John Behold YOUR GOD - no genealogy
Matthew
4:12-7:29 The KINGDOM Proclaimed
8:1-16:20 The KING Proclaimed
16:21-20:34 The KING rejected
21:1-26:35 The KINGDOM rejected
MARK
1:14-20
1:21
8:31
11:1
LUKE
4:14
5:12
9:22
19:1
JOHN
1:35
5:1
7:1
11:54
FOUR GOSPELS
Matthew Behold THY KING - Royal genealogy
Mark Behold THE SERVANT - No genealogy
Luke Behold THE MAN - human genealogy
John Behold YOUR GOD - no genealogy
So I have to say this is really odd.
Why does Jesus and His 12 say follow Him and Paul teaches differntly and say to follow Paul, why would Paul not say follow Jesus?
I be really tired, why are you posting scripture going back and forth between the 2 ages?
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)[/QUOTE]
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Is this directed at me?
I am confused, why is it not ok to quote the next 2 verses where you stopped (Acts 3:22-23)?
Also what is wrong woth the OT? Much of it is still to be fulfilled...
Jesus says we are to live by all the words of God, Mat 4:4 quoted from Deut 8:3.
And the atheist's and the non believers and It is going to be GREAT. Every knee shall bow, I just can't wait...…..
To understand why Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, it will help to understand why Moses is the lawgiver, why the entire Law is summed up as the "Law of Moses", even though the Law was given by God.
Even Jesus himself referred to the Law as "The Law of Moses". As he is living under the law, he is also subjected to Moses. (John 5:46, Matthew 19:8, Matthew 23:1, 2, Mark 7:9, 10).
Moses authority has been challenged before by the Jews, who wanted to hear directly from God instead. In the famous story recounted in Numbers 12
And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.
2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.
3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.
Likewise, almost all of us are Gentiles here. We belong to the Church, and in this age of grace, Paul is our apostle, his importance is equivalent to Moses, as the lawgiver to the Jews.
Paul's words are the words of the ascended Lord Jesus to his Church, and we will do well to follow what Paul is saying, as instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:37
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
I will read and reply to the rest, but this struck me...
all the 12 were sent to gentiles:
Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore, as you go, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you each and every day until the end of the age.”
and specificly Peter is apostle to the gentiles:
Acts 15:6-7, “So the apostles and the elders met to consider this statement. After a lengthy debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God chose me to be the one among you through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and believe."
and Acts and the Holy Spirit testify of this:
Acts 10:22-33, " 22 And they said, “Cornelius, a centurion, an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and to hear what you have to say.” 23 So he invited them in to be his guests. The next day he rose and went away with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa accompanied him. 24 And on the following day they entered Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I too am a man.” 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered. 28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. 29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me.” 30 And Cornelius said, “Four days ago, about this hour, I was praying in my house at the ninth hour, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing 31 and said, ‘Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God. 32 Send therefore to Joppa and ask for Simon who is called Peter. He is lodging in the house of Simon, a tanner, by the sea.’ 33 So I sent for you at once, and you have been kind enough to come. Now therefore we are all here in the presence of God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord.”
We have Jesus, Peter and the Holy Spirit all saying they are to gentiles as well as Jews, how can anyone say different? Mat 28 words of the King.
No, sorry, that was for RicStu. I am tired. Good night.[/QUOTE]
ohh, ok have a good night.
We do not have the ability to live the prefect sinless life Christ did. Paul said he is our example, showing us how to live for Jesus. He is like Moses for Gentiles.