Why do Dispensationalists teach Separation Theology?

[Absolutely]

That's ridiculous. We all know that John wrote Revelation by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Are you looking for silly excuses?

Revelation 1:1–2 (NASB95)
1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw."

I have read Revelation about 200 times, day in and day out. What about you?

View attachment 204085

The bible came from heaven to man.
If Jesus was slain from the foundation o f the world,when was the book written?
Before adam?
Are the world and mankind players in the book?
Or did the book come later?

There is more to it than mans simple answers

 

[Absolutely]

I've ask one preterist after the next and none of them could answer either if that make you feel better.

I got saved in an amil church IN 1976
I saw right away they were wrong
LOL

 

[UnderGrace]

I've ask one preterist after the next and none of them could answer either if that make you feel better.

Answer which exactly?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I got saved in an amil church IN 1976
I saw right away they were wrong
LOL

I am amillennial but hung around dispensationalists for a long time. I personally think they are ill informed on that issue, and most of them are simply following the teachings of their church. It's the last position I would hold.

I would consider historic premillennialism to be credible though. I would even consider postmillennialism to be credible..but not dispensationalism.

By the way, there's a ton of former dispensationalists on the Amillennialism Facebook group. A constant remark is that dispensationalists don't think systematically or organically about Scripture. I believe this is true.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I wished I could help you to think clearer and according to what the scriptures reveal to us. For example, if the book of Revelation was written for an intergalactic time of the future, we would have a problem because we would've had to admit that God gave us a book that has been irrelevant for the last 2,000 years and continues to be.

On the other hand, if God intended for the 1st-century church to get a very important message across, we would need to find out what it was.

I provided scripture that indicates the time of the fulfillment of these scriptures was around the corner (Rev. 1:1, 3, 3:11, 22:7, 10, 12), so we should understand that nowhere in the book of Revelation we read that this book was written for the far future because that alone would sound completely incongruent if we understood that God did not give John to write a book that meant nothing to the recipients of his book.

On the other hand, every other book written in the Bible was written to either a people, a church or a particular person of the past, e.g., the book of Exodus, the book of Ephesians, the book Philemon, etc., are some examples, so that fact alone should not deter us from understanding that the book of Revelation is no different than the rest, after all, it was written 2,000 years ago to the seven churches of Asia Minor.

Does it make sense?

View attachment 204066

I believe it was written for the seven churches to address events that were occurring at John's time, but at the same time, I'm not convinced the great prostitute of Rev 17 is the Jewish nation. I understand the view, and think it's reasonable, but I think the great prostitute could simply be referring to this world's system.

Some of the events are obviously future, such as the return of Jesus and the New Heaven/New Earth/New Jerusalem, but the book was meant to encourage the seven churches toward obedience and faithful witnessing.

Another issue is that some dispensationalists view it as a linear set of events, and it is defnitely not. It is probably about 4 visions that have overlapping content.

 

[azamzimtoti]

I'm not convinced the great prostitute of Rev 17 is the Jewish nation. I understand the view, and think it's reasonable, but I think the great prostitute could simply be referring to this world's system.

How so? John declares that the whore was judged for killing the prophets.

(Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.)

(Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.)

How was the blood of the prophets found in the "world's system" when Jesus stated the blood of them would be required on the apostate Jewish nation?

(Mat 23:3 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.)

(Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.)

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

I've ask one preterist after the next and none of them could answer either if that make you feel better.

So far you have demanded much from me as if you were my interrogator, yet you have not divulged how in the world can you believe in something that is always one step beyond our grasp?

Do you believe God gave us a completely irrelevant book for the last 2,000 years which continuously and perennially points to a far, intergalactic future? Your futuristic beliefs are vey convenient since none of the stuff you believe can be proven.

Since the Lord told us in Jn 19:30 that His works were finished, how come you don't believe His words and continue to attempt to believe in the Israel saga fiasco that apparently will never end until the closing of the curtains of this age?

Very convenient for all the futurists whose hope is not centered in what the Lord completed at the cross, but in the fulfillment of some sort of fake prophecies that have zero relevance with the fact that God has always had one people only... a people of faith.

 

[iamsoandso]

Answer which exactly?

He keeps saying Revelation is past tense(fulfilled by ad70) and so I ask him when where and how Revelation 13:15-19 was fulfilled and Revelation 19:21.

 

[Nehemiah6]

More presumptuous nonsense from GW

So far you have demanded much from me as if you were my interrogator, yet you have not divulged how in the world can you believe in something that is always one step beyond our grasp?

Futurism does not teach that something is "always one step beyond our grasp". So that is just a straw man.

Do you believe God gave us a completely irrelevant book for the last 2,000 years which continuously and perennially points to a far, intergalactic future? Your futuristic beliefs are very convenient since none of the stuff you believe can be proven.

The relevance of the Bible is for today. The Gospel is for today. But that is not all that is presented in the Bible. And talking about an "intergalactic future" is another straw man. This is not science fiction. The Bible gives us a panorama from the creation of the first heavens and earth to the New Heavens and the New Earth. If you don't believe that you don't believe God.

Since the Lord told us in Jn 19:30 that His works were finished, how come you don't believe His words and continue to attempt to believe in the Israel saga fiasco that apparently will never end until the closing of the curtains of this age?

Quite obviously you neither understand the finished work of Christ nor the Bible prophecies pertaining to the future of Israel. So before you go any further with your nonsense you should really sit down and do some serious Bible study.

Very convenient for all the futurists whose hope is not centered in what the Lord completed at the cross, but in the fulfillment of some sort of fake prophecies that have zero relevance with the fact that God has always had one people only... a people of faith.

More nonsense from someone who has no clue. Futurists are genuine believers who have put their faith in Christ and His finished work at the cross for their salvation. So now you are just slandering Christians (a good way to start off when you are a Newbie here). And to call Bible prophecies *fake* is to call God a liar. So now you have really dug yourself into a deep hole.

It is really annoying when someone who is clueless shows up and starts his rants.

 

[iamsoandso]

So far you have demanded much from me as if you were my interrogator, yet you have not divulged how in the world can you believe in something that is always one step beyond our grasp?

Do you believe God gave us a completely irrelevant book for the last 2,000 years which continuously and perennially points to a far, intergalactic future? Your futuristic beliefs are vey convenient since none of the stuff you believe can be proven.

Since the Lord told us in Jn 19:30 that His works were finished, how come you don't believe His words and continue to attempt to believe in the Israel saga fiasco that apparently will never end until the closing of the curtains of this age?

Very convenient for all the futurists whose hope is not centered in what the Lord completed at the cross, but in the fulfillment of some sort of fake prophecies that have zero relevance with the fact that God has always had one people only... a people of faith.

If you remember in post #328 I stated that I was approaching things as if I didn't know. So there is futurist(I ask them things about how they see this). Now though you are preterist and see this as it being all fulfilled by ad70. So I am asking you or any preterist who might chime in the same question.

After all if you are trying to convince me of your position on the matter and you say it is all fulfilled by ad70 then you see it fulfilled by someone at some point in time and in some manner. So I was just working with you and you seeing it fulfilled in the past. It doesn't seem logical that someone would say something was already fulfilled if they had nothing to speak of explaining who,when and how it is fulfilled.

Again if you would let me ask the preterist the things I am curious over and let me ask the futurist things I would that pertain to them. After all the futurist will say it is future and the peterist will say it is past. As an preteist I am asking you how you see this and will consider your answer if you will give it.

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

More presumptuous nonsense from GW

Futurism does not teach that something is "always one step beyond our grasp". So that is just a straw man.

The relevance of the Bible is for today. The Gospel is for today. But that is not all that is presented in the Bible. And talking about an "intergalactic future" is another straw man. This is not science fiction. The Bible gives us a panorama from the creation of the first heavens and earth to the New Heavens and the New Earth. If you don't believe that you don't believe God.

Quite obviously you neither understand the finished work of Christ nor the Bible prophecies pertaining to the future of Israel. So before you go any further with your nonsense you should really sit down and do some serious Bible study.

More nonsense from someone who has no clue. Futurists are genuine believers who have put their faith in Christ and His finished work at the cross for their salvation. So now you are just slandering Christians (a good way to start off when you are a Newbie here). And to call Bible prophecies *fake* is to call God a liar. So now you have really dug yourself into a deep hole.

It is really annoying when someone who is clueless shows up and starts his rants.

[[ Futurism does not teach that something is "always one step beyond our grasp". So that is just a straw man. }}

The straw argument comes from you, but you just don't know yet. But I'm sure you will let me know when the future is here,

[[The relevance of the Bible is for today. The Gospel is for today. But that is not all that is presented in the Bible. And talking about an "intergalactic future" is another straw man. This is not science fiction. The Bible gives us a panorama from the creation of the first heavens and earth to the New Heavens and the New Earth. If you don't believe that you don't believe God.]]

We were not talking about the Bible in general, but about your futuristic views of Revelation that puts it away from our grasp. Very convenient when you don't have to prove your beliefs.

I do understand quite well about the finished work of Christ. If I didn't, I would be believing what you believe, which means that Israel will get a second chance of redemption... in the future, of course! This foolish idea alone makes them look like an elite race that is superior to the rest of us peons who only get once chance to believe in Christ. So, when Jesus said, "It is finished", He meant, "it is finished" with a wink. So, you are the one who is creating a straw man argument.

[[ More nonsense from someone who has no clue. Futurists are genuine believers who have put their faith in Christ and His finished work at the cross for their salvation. So now you are just slandering Christians (a good way to start off when you are a Newbie here). And to call Bible prophecies *fake* is to call God a liar. So now you have really dug yourself into a deep hole.

It is really annoying when someone who is clueless shows up and starts his rants. ]]

No one is more annoyed than I am when I have to put up with foolish beliefs that eat away at the finished work of Christ. Futurists believe in Christ all right, but no in Christ alone. They believe in Christ + Israel, plus the fake Millennium, plus the tribulation...

The only one who doesn't have a clue here is you. Should I say anymore?

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

If you remember in post #328 I stated that I was approaching things as if I didn't know. So there is futurist(I ask them things about how they see this). Now though you are preterist and see this as it being all fulfilled by ad70. So I am asking you or any preterist who might chime in the same question.

After all if you are trying to convince me of your position on the matter and you say it is all fulfilled by ad70 then you see it fulfilled by someone at some point in time and in some manner. So I was just working with you and you seeing it fulfilled in the past. It doesn't seem logical that someone would say something was already fulfilled if they had nothing to speak of explaining who,when and how it is fulfilled.

Again if you would let me ask the preterist the things I am curious over and let me ask the futurist things I would that pertain to them. After all the futurist will say it is future and the peterist will say it is past. As an preteist I am asking you how you see this and will consider your answer if you will give it.

I have never claimed to be a preterist. Did you give me that label because my beliefs don't fit yours?

 

[Absolutely]

I have never claimed to be a preterist. Did you give me that label because my beliefs don't fit yours?

View attachment 204096

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. ... The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 Dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond

(From wiki)

 

[Nehemiah6]

The only one who doesn't have a clue here is you. Should I say anymore?

You should quit while you're ahead, since you have shown your true colors. Another false teacher (or a pupil of false teachers). And while you're at it, learn to quote from others' posts.

 

[iamsoandso]

I have never claimed to be a preterist. Did you give me that label because my beliefs don't fit yours?

View attachment 204096

Well no I was going by the things you said in your post. If your not preterist though that's good because someone might ask by whom,when and how things were fulfilled and you might not be able to answer.

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. ... The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 Dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond

(From wiki)

Preterism, a Christian eschatological view, interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. ... The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 Dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond

(From wiki)

I simply exegete the scriptures according to the scriptures, not according to man, but I have to admit I have read extensively the beliefs of the Dispensational jargon and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Preterism, on the other hand, tends to put everything in the past without considering that we are still waiting for the glorious return of the Lord Jesus who will put an end to the agony of death and will give us a body unto the likeness of the body of His glory (Phi. 3:20-21, Rom. 8:11; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Eph. 1:20; Col. 2:12]; 1 Thess. 1:10; Heb. 13:20.

Now, why don't we discuss what you believe and let us look into the word of God to see if it fits with God's eternal truth?

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

You should quit while you're ahead, since you have shown your true colors. Another false teacher (or a pupil of false teachers). And while you're at it, learn to quote from others' posts.

Prove me wrong. By the way, I don't quote other people or copy from links. If I did, I would provide the info. Another lie about me.

 

[RickStudies]

Prove me wrong. By the way, I don't quote other people or copy from links. If I did, I would provide the info. Another lie about me.
View attachment 204099

Prove you wrong in the scriptures wouldn`t be hard but your views are so far removed from the gospel it would just be an unreasonable amount of work to address it properly.

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

Prove you wrong in the scriptures wouldn`t be hard but your views are so far removed from the gospel it would just be an unreasonable amount of work to address it properly.

Name a couple of my views that offend you and that are removed from the gospel... IN YOUR VIEW.
1)
2)
3)

 

[Hevosmies358]

A constant remark is that dispensationalists don't think systematically or organically about Scripture. I believe this is true.

WHAT

Dispies are probably the most SYSTEMATIC and ORGANIZED and CLINICAL in their approach to Scripture. ITS LIKE A SURGERY.

I go to a dispie church rn, I SHOULD KNOW. They are calvinist too! Thats a rare combo!