Awww, does it bother you that I don’t worship on Sunday mornings at 11:00AM? You poor little legalist, you live in a self imposed prison void of grace. I pity you.
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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The word millennium isn`t in the Bible and the 1000 years will be an age. Peter called it the times of restitution of all things and by implication that is how it was refered to back in the Bible days.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Perhaps voided is not the correct view as God gave the Northern Kingdom/Israel a writ of divorcement and put her out of His house (Assyrian captivity/exile). Once divorced she was no longer "under covenant" or "contending with God/Israel". Although the covenant remained in force with the Southern Kingdom of Judah even through their exile.
But that said, it would be good to read your scripture references regarding the voiding of the "Old Covenant" and whether it pertains to all the tribes or just some of them.
SG
Since you say that you are a hospice chaplin your words bother me a bit. Makes me wonder how you treat those you are supposed to be caring for.
Yes the civil calendar and the seasonal calendar are out of sync to the tune of between 45-60 days. Interesting time. Perhaps this is the extended season that has been set in motion for the "6th year" preceeding the 7th year rest for the earth. Been a bumper year here. Certainly enough for two years as the scripture lays out. Perhaps even the 6th year preceeding a Jubilee! Maybe 2019 is the year...I have a couple studies (one very interesting one from Daniel 12) that do point to it, although I would not push it.
Perhaps voided is not the correct view as God gave the Northern Kingdom/Israel a writ of divorcement and put her out of His house (Assyrian captivity/exile). Once divorced she was no longer "under covenant" or "contending with God/Israel". Although the covenant remained in force with the Southern Kingdom of Judah even through their exile.
But that said, it would be good to read your scripture references regarding the voiding of the "Old Covenant" and whether it pertains to all the tribes or just some of them.
SG
Can you give me a post number so I can see what I was responding to? I`m not sure void was my word, I either didn`t contest it or wrote hastily. Revise would be a better term for what I believe about it.
Both of those commandments are part of the law of Moses.[/QUOTE]
I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.
I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lords Day. The day of Vengeance. When Jesus shall return as Lord of Lord and King of Kings. When at the 7th trump He shall descend and all will be changed. And Satan will be bound for 1000 years. When at the end of that time Satan will be loosed for a short time and then the lake of fire and great throne judgment.
Greetings Dan,
Yes, this is an aspect of the instructions given.
Also, you were not permitted to sell/buy "the land", only "the crops".
I have asked that question myself, and how it pertains/applies to today and in this "new land"
Back to Europe? Not sure about that. But possibly. I'm sure if that day comes it will all be made abundantly clear.
I agree with you 100% on the positives and have contemplated the wisdom behind the rational many times, and have arrived at some of the same conclusions, but would not necessarily accept the "liberal" label. In fact I do not fall under any label other than one seeking "God's Kingdom Now" which none of the parties seem to desire.
I see the benefit of limiting greed and avarice too and while each party seems to have their own opinion of themselves in these matters, which are mostly not representative of their actual core in the matters, I see "central governments" as the culprits not the "parties" The central government was, is, and ever will be Gods place of authority. Any man made structure that is erected in its place will inevitably fail as it is only manageable by the divine.
Appreciate the thoughts
SG
Oh the Abrahamic covenant includes the land promise, truly. But I think the jubilee is part of the portion of the law that remains to be fulfilled by Christ.
All of Israel hadn't returned to reclaim their land at the time of John the Baptist. Only Judah returned.
Hey RS,
Take a look at my post you just replied to. At the top of it you will see your post that I was replying to, not all of it but enough to recognize it. In that post to the right of your name you will see an up arrow. If you click on that arrow you will be taken back to your post that I was replying to. Hope this helps, if not see post number-7056.
SG
I think I am confused. Do you believe in the New Covenant or not? Because if you do, then the only "laws of Moses" that are valid today and to be followed would be the ones Jesus commanded from them, and those that He did not command we are no longer under. (though I must admit there are a bunch more I really wish would have been brought such as recompense for theft, throwing the first stone etc) (and for those who would complain is was all one law not divided fact is some were nailed to the cross, with Jesus, He also brought some into the new, and left the rest for our history, instruction of holiness or edification etc) The law of Moses was valid till John the Baptist, they were set up as temporary. They were for a people who had been slaves for 400 years and knew nothing about being a nation, let alone how to be a "people" a holy people, a peculiar people, unto God. Those laws gave them rules for everything from worshipping God to Govennment, hence the "temp" ness of them.[/QUOTE]
My belief in what it means to believe in New Covenant and yours isn`t the same. I`m sorry that my effort to articulate my point of view to you has failed. I suspect that you didn`t read some of my posts or perhaps you didn`t look at my scripture evidence with an open mind. Often indoctrinated Chrisitans have a hard time recieving Biblical truth. The self talk coming from preconcieved religeous ideas is a hard obsticle to overcome.
Having said that, yes I believe in the New Covenant and since you claim you believe in following Jesus commandments, how about this one?
1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;
Want to obey Jesus? Go down to your local temple and obey the Rabbi.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Precisely PH!
And so, is the Father and God of Jesus Christ!
If one takes "salvation by grace through faith alone?"
One is only "getting" a 2-d "representation" of something that is much more then 2-d!
If one doesn't "covet earnestly", or "press on" to the "high calling OF God?"
A 2-d object is ALL one is GOING to see!
Because, that is ALL that the infinite dimensional object is going to ALLOW one TO see! Does this mean that one who only can see 2-d is not saved? God Forbid!
So, what about those who proclaim that 2d representation IS the infinite dimensional object, and there is NOTHING ELSE to see here? A big bucketful of WOE, man!
That "no further DUES, or sacrifices are REQUIRED" by the believer, or seeker, to be offered UNTO the infinite dimensional object, BY the 2-d object, so that MORE of the infinite multidimensional object may be made manifest within the believer or seeker? (again) God Forbid!
Perhaps then, one might more understand that which Christ told, even to His Disciples!
"Oh Ye of LITTLE faith!"
But, as your illustration explains, to which I mean no offense, nor disrespect, in referring to GOD, as an infinite multi dimensional object, to whom be all praise and glory from everlasting TO everlasting.
THERE IS MORE!.....MUCH MORE!
I can't "take" you there! Nor, would I want to! ONLY Jesus Christ can do that! When He confesses you TO His Father! Ya jez GOTTA BE WILLIN' to proceed onwards!
I appreciate you taking up "light skins" cause for his, er her. Although, I'm kinda doubtful that he, er she would even understand the terminology you used in your illustration.
That being said?
I am in the hopes that you do.
Ok thx, it was just a hasty choice of words on my part. It was late, I was tired. I believe the New Covenant is revision of the Old but I think you can argue voided with some clarification but I`m not interested in doing that.
We probably agree on a lot of things and disagree on some. Tell me what you want to say about it and let`s go from there.
Greetings RS,
Yes, I have found only one in my whole life that I agreed with completely!
We both have that same experience I bet.SG
@ SimpleGardner Here`s something you might appriciate. I liked this so I saved it out of my Yahoo Group message board some years back.
Hello Group~
I am not a Bible scholar or linguistic expert, but have always relied on the Hand of Holy Spirit to guide my religious studies, and the Voice of Holy Spirit to help me discern and live by the Truth therein. So what I offer here comes from the heart and an understanding of practical gardening techniques. Please excuse me ahead of time if I offend anyone by my simplistic viewpoint.
Grafting is done for only two reasons -- to improve the quality and abundance of the fruit from roots that are thriving but fruiting poorly (or not at all), and to save quality, abundantly fruiting vines whose own roots are known not to be able to survive or thrive under the same conditions as the roots to which they might be grafted.
Once grafted, a vine retains its original nature, growing in the same manner and producing the same quality fruit as it did before attaining new roots. If the grafted vine was able to assume the nature of its new roots and did (which is not possible), the grafting would have been in vain. By the same token, if the thriving roots were able to assume the nature of the grafted vines (which is not possible), the grafting would have been in vain.
A good viticulturist knows that if he fills his vinyard with thriving plants that were once traditional but no longer bear fruit, he will have no harvest. He also knows that if he replaces them with plants having poorly suited roots, he will have no harvest. Neither plant is suitable for his purpose in their natural state, yet they are the only plants he has to work with.
So the wise viticulturist will seek to redeem both plants, to achieve the best possible harvest. Through grafting both plants may be saved, and an otherwise unproductive vinyard can be filled with prosperous vines in record time, shortening the days necessary to wait for a full harvest.
Once grafted, the new vines do not grow according to the roots to which they have been grafted, but are trained and guided by the hand which did the grafting, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost. Neither do the old roots grow according to the grafted vines, but are cultivated and nourished by the hand that did the grafting, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost. Once a grafting has been established and has taken hold, the old roots are not permitted to grow their own new vines, lest they choke out the grafts and return the whole field to its original, unproductive state.
Blessed be the Wise Viticulturist, who redeems both plants and assures the best possible harvest.
Blessed be the Hand of the Viticulturist, which trains, guides, cultivates and nourishes the plants, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost.
Blessed be the Father of the Viticulturist, who understands the nature of the plants and sends his Son to redeem them both, that the time to full harvest might be shortened thereby -- otherwise all (plants and harvest) would be lost.
When intellect (Law) and emotion (Faith) stand alone on their own, neither one produces the best fruit. When balance is achieved between them through the Word (Yeshua), an excellent and bountiful harvest is assured.
May we all seek balance, with that goal in mind.
Thanks for listening~
Rose
(And yes, I've been grafted -- Praise Yaweh!)
Hello Group~
I am not a Bible scholar or linguistic expert, but have always relied on the Hand of Holy Spirit to guide my religious studies, and the Voice of Holy Spirit to help me discern and live by the Truth therein. So what I offer here comes from the heart and an understanding of practical gardening techniques. Please excuse me ahead of time if I offend anyone by my simplistic viewpoint.
Grafting is done for only two reasons -- to improve the quality and abundance of the fruit from roots that are thriving but fruiting poorly (or not at all), and to save quality, abundantly fruiting vines whose own roots are known not to be able to survive or thrive under the same conditions as the roots to which they might be grafted.
Once grafted, a vine retains its original nature, growing in the same manner and producing the same quality fruit as it did before attaining new roots. If the grafted vine was able to assume the nature of its new roots and did (which is not possible), the grafting would have been in vain. By the same token, if the thriving roots were able to assume the nature of the grafted vines (which is not possible), the grafting would have been in vain.
A good viticulturist knows that if he fills his vinyard with thriving plants that were once traditional but no longer bear fruit, he will have no harvest. He also knows that if he replaces them with plants having poorly suited roots, he will have no harvest. Neither plant is suitable for his purpose in their natural state, yet they are the only plants he has to work with.
So the wise viticulturist will seek to redeem both plants, to achieve the best possible harvest. Through grafting both plants may be saved, and an otherwise unproductive vinyard can be filled with prosperous vines in record time, shortening the days necessary to wait for a full harvest.
Once grafted, the new vines do not grow according to the roots to which they have been grafted, but are trained and guided by the hand which did the grafting, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost. Neither do the old roots grow according to the grafted vines, but are cultivated and nourished by the hand that did the grafting, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost. Once a grafting has been established and has taken hold, the old roots are not permitted to grow their own new vines, lest they choke out the grafts and return the whole field to its original, unproductive state.
Blessed be the Wise Viticulturist, who redeems both plants and assures the best possible harvest.
Blessed be the Hand of the Viticulturist, which trains, guides, cultivates and nourishes the plants, that their fruitfulness might be increased to the utmost.
Blessed be the Father of the Viticulturist, who understands the nature of the plants and sends his Son to redeem them both, that the time to full harvest might be shortened thereby -- otherwise all (plants and harvest) would be lost.
When intellect (Law) and emotion (Faith) stand alone on their own, neither one produces the best fruit. When balance is achieved between them through the Word (Yeshua), an excellent and bountiful harvest is assured.
May we all seek balance, with that goal in mind.
Thanks for listening~
Rose
(And yes, I've been grafted -- Praise Yaweh!)
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
OH! And, I would, and do a whole lot more then even that!
I would make for a terrible jew in the flesh! Wouldn't I?
Yet, you keep trying to "pigeon hole" me as one! Doncha?
I can't help that ya don't "get it!"
What I do get, is in your trying to understand?
You are not understanding very much!
Not very much at all!
Greetings RS,
Yes, I have found only one in my whole life that I agreed with completely!
SG
Well, normally my approach is to find common ground. I don`t usually just throw out theology somebody can`t handel like I have around here. I just made an exception because cabin fever put me in the mood to challenge somebody
