70*7

[jacob_g]

I made the statement .... forgive 70*7 in another post as a joke, but what is that really?

A woman that is beat by her husband she forgives him so does she have to stay with him and wait on the next beating, and forgive again? Then there is easy forgiveness, you hurt my feelings, you did me wrong for a "girl", and so on....

The later are simple... we forgive, forever really, and move on.... but there is forgiveness of the deep, I think really like God has forgiven us (and the silly), but when humans forgive does that mean still be a "punching bag" .... God tells us to sin no more, because we cannot cast the first stone, even though He knows we will He still forgives us.... Does 70*7 mean it is supposed to work the same way with us?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hi @jacob_g, I believe that one of God's principle interest lies in reconciliation, both us w/Him, as well as us w/each other. So, if a woman is beaten by her husband, and he truly/sincerely repents of his sin and asks for her forgiveness, then the ball is in her court again as I believe she is duty-bound to forgive him.

Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing however, but forgiveness is where the reconciliation of two parties always begins.

What forgiveness doesn't mean is that a beaten wife is duty-bound to ~trust~ her husband again, not immediately anyway, especially if there is a reason not to (or even is she simply 'feels' that there is a reason not to). Forgiveness is given. Trust must be earned (and earning that again, in a case like you described in the OP could, and should, take a VERY long time indeed).

God hardly intended forgiveness to be a means for perpetrators to inflict additional harm on their victims.

~Deut

 

[jacob_g]

Hi @jacob_g, I believe that one of God's principle interest lies in reconciliation, both us w/Him, as well as us w/each other. So, if a woman is beaten by her husband, and he truly/sincerely repents of his sin and asks for her forgiveness, then the ball is in her court again as I believe she is duty-bound to forgive him.

Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing however, but forgiveness is where the reconciliation of two parties always begins.

What forgiveness doesn't mean is that a beaten wife is duty-bound to ~trust~ her husband again, not immediately anyway, especially if there is a reason not to (or even is she simply 'feels' that there is a reason not to). Forgiveness is given. Trust must be earned (and earning that again, in a case like you described in the OP could, and should, take a VERY long time indeed).

God hardly intended forgiveness to be a means for perpetrators to inflict additional harm on their victims.

~Deut

I think you said this great.... It is such a big deal today with, not just physical abusers, but adicts in someone's physical life.

Let me ask this (I have a preconceived idea but no so;id answer).... is forgiveness and reconciliation the same with God as in humans, like you described, or is it different being human? I ask this question because so many I work with say (rightly so) they have to go back because that is what Christ does?

 

[breno785au]

Forgiveness does not equate to trust.
When trust is broken, it is something that needs to be earned again.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I think you said this great.... It is such a big deal today with, not just physical abusers, but adicts in someone's physical life.

Let me ask this (I have a preconceived idea but no so;id answer).... is forgiveness and reconciliation the same with God as in humans, like you described, or is it different being human? I ask this question because so many I work with say (rightly so) they have to go back because that is what Christ does?

Hi again Jacob, I think that reconciliation (in this case) is both the same in some ways, and quite different in others, beginning with the fact that God chooses to forgive us and to be reconciled to us on the basis/merit/works of Another.

I'd like to give this last question and thoughts of yours a little more consideration, and since it's pretty late here (and because I'm still "under the weather" .. and getting more and more spacey every minute because of it ), I think I'll return tomorrow and continue (Dv), if that ok with you?

I've actually been thinking about what forgiveness really means for us (from God's POV) for some time now (but have never committed to getting down to studying it so far), so I look forward to seeing where this discussion goes .. and that, hopefully with a clearer mind

God bless you!

~Deut

Romans 5 (see too: 2 Corinthians 5:18-21)​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.​

.

 

[jacob_g]

Forgiveness does not equate to trust.
When trust is broken, it is something that needs to be earned again.

So what exactly does that mean? God's forgiveness is relocation (which I believe) but humans should forgive but wait to see if there is true repentance... became right with God and have changed before letting the person back into their life....

Deep thought does God like humans wait to see change?

I don't think so because can a leopard change his spots?... no... Only God can do that! But I love what the previous poster said about reconciliation.... even with forgiveness the spots have to be changed by God to allow the leopard back in.

 

[jacob_g]

Hi again Jacob, I think that reconciliation (in this case) is both the same in some ways, and quite different in others, beginning with the fact that God chooses to forgive us and to be reconciled to us on the basis/merit/works of Another.

I'd like to give this last question and thoughts of yours a little more consideration, and since it's pretty late here (and because I'm still "under the weather" .. and getting more and more spacey every minute because of it ), I think I'll return tomorrow and continue (Dv), if that ok with you?

I've actually been thinking about what forgiveness really means for us (from God's POV) for some time now (but have never committed to getting down to studying it so far), so I look forward to seeing where this discussion goes .. and that, hopefully with a clearer mind

God bless you!

~Deut

Romans 5 (see too: 2 Corinthians 5:18-21)​

8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.​

10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.​

.

I pray for your healing and believe God is our healer...

I like how you posed the question because it makes me really dig. I honestly do not believe the forgiveness of God is based on works or reconciliation... I believe that happened at the cross and accepting Messiah as Lord and Savior.

When I really think about it as humans we can still be deceived, especially because of love.

The Scripture says the heart is deceitfully wicked who can know it... Yet while we were still sinners Messih still died for us. I do not believe we ever stop being sinners, I believe Messiah stands in our place for forgiveness.

With that said I let a family member not have a home. She lives with with her daughter who is also an addict... not sure how they split the heroin and suboxone. I forgive my family... I am what I am today because of them...
But I believe it is Godly/ Right to wait until they come in my home and not survey what they can steel. (they have this is not unfounded)

I am sure they are they are just trapped in a really bad vice... I forgive them but do not trust them as fair as I can throw them... and I cannot even pick them up...lol

With all of that said, people get offended they should just get over it... I believe God just does forgives, that is His nature, but true repentance is seen in King David.... "I have sinned against you and You alone" but he built an altar that cost him unto the Lord and he still chose his punishment; yet God still accomplished His will, with forgiveness and King David was reconciled to Him; yet he paid dearly in the natural... The point is I think we can get forgiveness from God and forgive but there is still a price we pay.. Yes God reconciles families but only if the sinner eats well deserved humble pie.

 

[Lightskin]

I made the statement .... forgive 70*7 in another post as a joke, but what is that really?

A woman that is beat by her husband she forgives him so does she have to stay with him and wait on the next beating, and forgive again? Then there is easy forgiveness, you hurt my feelings, you did me wrong for a "girl", and so on....

The later are simple... we forgive, forever really, and move on.... but there is forgiveness of the deep, I think really like God has forgiven us (and the silly), but when humans forgive does that mean still be a "punching bag" .... God tells us to sin no more, because we cannot cast the first stone, even though He knows we will He still forgives us.... Does 70*7 mean it is supposed to work the same way with us?

Forgiving others doesn’t mean sticking around for the next beating. Forgiving others allows us to sidestep living in a self-imposed prison of anger, hatred and resentment. The forgiver, not the forgiven, benefits more from forgiveness.

 

[JamOn]

Forgiving others doesn’t mean sticking around for the next beating. Forgiving others allows us to sidestep living in a self-imposed prison of anger, hatred and resentment. The forgiver, not the forgiven, benefits more from forgiveness.

Both can benefit equally,