Not By Works

[Macabeus]

Wrong .. you are the one with the false accusations.

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4021209


And on your Corinthian verse challenge later.... I have work to do and I blame you for my negligence .... just kidding!!!

But I will look at it ...maybe... we will see how the wind blows.

What false accusations. The main thing I see in your link that is relevant is that DC left the word Lord out of his quote of Romans 10:9-10. I don’t know if it was inadvertent, but it sure was convenient for you and he.

 

[Macabeus]

Wrong .. you are the one with the false accusations.

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4021209


And on your Corinthian verse challenge later.... I have work to do and I blame you for my negligence .... just kidding!!!

But I will look at it ...maybe... we will see how the wind blows.

Two questions I want to ask for when you get back. Starting point
1. What does Paul say about adulterers, idolators, etc

2. What does he say about the Corinthians?

 

[Macabeus]

No, it’s not my position. I stand forever with Jesus as found in John 3:16.

Ok, because you are in Christ. But we are not talking about you. The position I am challenging,that I have documented that it has been stated by a member of these forums, is the claim that unrepentant adulterers, idolators, etc are in Christ too, even those who die in that state. Read 1 Cor 6:9-11 and let me know

Regenerate people REPENT. Such WERE some of you...

 

[Macabeus]

The easy-believism OSAS people are actually closet gnostics, without even knowing it.

The way I have seen them twist 1 Cor. 6:9-11 is that since they are now believers, they were washed, but obviously they didn't stop doing those things. That would be works salvation right? So they are made POSITIONALLY righteous, while in fact they remain UNRIGHTEOUS.

Let me assure you, God is not playing games.

You mix two teachings together and you got yourself last days apostasy:
1. You can't repent
2. You are eternally secure in your sins.

The facts are they are quick to backtrack when you point out the obvious conclusions of their beliefs. Things such as:
"God disciplines and chastises people. We are not teaching you can just live in sin and be saved"
"A true believer will eventually make a break through"

These usually come out only when they are on the backfoot. Before this, they were saying what Charles said in the video I posted, that yes, you can live in all kinds of sin, and you can never out sin God's grace. What do you think the viewer at home is going to think? I let you decide.

My question again is: WHEN. WHEN does the sin stop? And Neither Macabeus, myself, or any other person is claiming to be sinlessly perfect. But again, there are willful sins, and unwillful sins, as I have demonstrated on about page 4000 if I recall correctly on this thread. Obviously the clear verses from Numbers were rejected by the OSAS advocates in favor of their "Its all sin, you've broken one law thats it. You've stolen now you might as well commit adultery as well".

Its true that if you have sinned once, you are a lawbreaker, and no amount of returning to obedience will change that fact. This does not mean: All sin is equal, and everyone who has studied the Tanakh knows this, the punishments for sins were different. Which is why even in the New Testament John talks about sins UNTO DEATH, that you should not pray for, these would be open, willful, rebellion against God.

Jesus says to look upon a woman to lust after her is adultery in your heart. This is true. But let me ask you, which is worse, lusting after someone or actually commiting adultery? Anyone with half a brain knows, commiting adultery is way worse, because you are a homewrecker, destroying someone's life, whereas with lusting you are only destroying yourself.

So what sins must stop? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21. The Apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of God's Spirit says it loud and clear, be not deceived, people who are practicing these things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom. Surprisingly, the things that Paul says "be not deceived" are the ones that the devil is actively deceiving people on. This in itself is proof of the Bible being divinely inspired.

Don't let anyone fool you into thinking you will be saved and not inherit the kingdom, the kingdom is where the KING is. If you are not with the KING, you are in the lake of FIRE.

There is no conversion where repentance is not found

 

[Macabeus]

He does not understand true repentance

He thinks a person can get saved without it, then he calls us easy believists.

He condems others by saying his sin is ok, because he feels bad, it was just an oopsie..

Fact is, no one who has yet to repent has true faith in christ. They still have yet to give up part of self, thus In reality their faith is still in. Self. Not christ.

Quit projecting, EG.

 

[Macabeus]

View attachment 203955

Oooh, so sorry to disturb your echo chamber.

 

[Macabeus]

No one who is a child of god commits a sin and is not convicted of that sin, and no one who is a child does not come to know he did wrong, and no one is free from chastening of the spirit

Some people try to use the word repent as a word which frees them from being legalistic,. Well they are wrong

You repent BEFORE you come to christ, saying you must repent after is calling your own origional repentance into question, and gods integrity into question (he saved someone who has not yet repented)

Yet another sub-biblical claim. Christians are sometimes called and do repent after salvation. See 2 Cor 7:9.

Another thing, I am not talking about retaining salvation. I am saying that those who know God do not practice such things. If they do for a season, they repent. ITS PART OF THE NEW NATURE

 

[CherieR]

@UnderGrace, thanks for that comment about how to reference someone. I did not know about that before.

 

[Macabeus]

How many sins have you commited in the last week that you do not even know or remember you commited them?

If confession of every sin is required to maintain salvation, no one is, or ever will be saved.

Changing the focus and completely far removed from what I have been saying. You should open a fish store and specialize in red herrings. See previous post for much needed clarification for you

 

[Macabeus]

Changing the focus and completely far removed from what I have been saying. You should open a fish store and specialize in red herrings. See previous post for much needed clarification for you

@UnderGrace @eternally-gratefull
Where did I ever say “lose salvation”? You are so confused, some of you, that you don’t know whether someone is talking about conditions for preservation, which I am NOT, or talking about what actual regeneration looks like, which I am.

My view of regeneration is not my own. It is fully docmented in scripture. If you knew the Bible as well as you claim, you would know this. But you’re not able to be in the same area code as what we are talking about right noe

 

[VCO]

Jude 1:4. Nuff said.

Preaching license to sin while denying preaching such a thing.

Here is one headhuncho heretic leading possibly millions of people to damnation, Charles Stanley openly letting the cat out of the bag:

Compare this to what saith the Scriptures, which have already been rejected by the OSAS-advocates, or turned on their heads, or made null and void.

Its about misunderstanding what faith is. In the Scriptures (not in your imagination) FAITH works by love, FAITH produces fruit, FAITH is action, FAITH is always tied to obedience. In the New Testament and in the Old Testament.

One example:
Hebrews 3:10-14 Therefore I was displeased with that generation, and said, ‘They always err in their heart, but they didn’t know my ways;’ as I swore in my wrath, ‘They will not enter into my rest.’” Beware, brothers, lest perhaps there be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God; but exhort one another day by day, so long as it is called “today”; lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm to the end:

The Tanakh is written for us to learn from, Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles says to them that these are written for our learning. Don't murmur like the Israelites did.

Hebrews 3:18-19 To whom did he swear that they wouldn’t enter into his rest, but to those who were disobedient? We see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.

John 3:36 One who believes in the Son has eternal life, but one who disobeys the Son won’t see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Disobedience and believing, again correlated. There are countless warnings in the Scriptures about falling way, remain steadfast, hold fast, be not deceived...... yet all of these are nullified and made empty threats if OSAS taken to its logical conclusion. There is a reason this teaching is foreign to church history.

-----------

There is eternal life, in the present. Its in His Son. Jesus Christ:
1Jn 5:11 The testimony is this, that God gave to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

However: We must abide in the vine, or there is no eternal life in us. Our eternal life is a future event, despite the Scriptures speaking of it in some instances in the present, because if we are abiding in the Son, we have eternal life. But there are verses showing this is something to be actualized in the future:

Mat 25:46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
1Jn 2:25 This is the promise which he promised us, the eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What we have established is that eternal life is in the Son, and the Son tells us to abide in Him, and if we do not abide, we do not have life, because life is only in the Son. That should be clear cut. But with all the americanized OSAS believers using calvinist arguments while arguing against calvinism, we hear catchphrases like "You are trying to save yourself" "Jesus isnt strong enough to keep you saved" "Jesus needs your help" "You cant be unborn once you're born again".

All these above are just catchphrases, nobody is saying anything about nothing. All we are doing is trying to faithfully follow what the Scriptures teach, and what the Apostles and our Lord Jesus Christ said. If the Scriptures say:

Heb 12:14 Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,
Heb 12:15 looking carefully lest there be any man who falls short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and many be defiled by it;
Heb 12:16 lest there be any sexually immoral person, or profane person, like Esau, who sold his birthright for one meal.
Heb 12:17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 2:6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked.

Can we then say that those who say "You should walk in the light, and the blood of Jesus Christ will then cleanse you from all sin. You should walk as He walked if you claim to remain in Him. hoever doesn’t do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn’t love his brother. . He who does God's will remains forever, world is passing away with its lusts, anyone who loves the world the Father's love is not in them." are teaching works salvation, trying to help Jesus save them, have a weak inept God? Certainly not! We are simply just repeating what the BIBLE teaches. Not what OSAS philosophy twists the Bible into.

Facts are, if OSAS was true, most of the New Testament would not be needed, all the warnings would be irrelevant because nobody needs to be dilligent, since nobody is in danger of not making it to the promised land, deception is not a danger, since nobody can fall away from the faith. (Even though the Bible says people fall away from the faith, but hey, thats just means outward church goers, they were fakers never saved to begin with, or are still saved in heresy, take your pick. Lets misquote They went out from among us because they were not of us, talking about gnostics in context)

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

Can you fall away from the faith, without first being in the faith? Can you depart from the living God, without first being with the living God?

Prayerfully consider this, please. Do NOT spread the OSAS doctrine any further, look at the results it has brought forth within Christendom during its short hundred years of being preached.
This is not to say we do not have security of salvation. Paul told us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not.

Dr. Charles Stanley is one of the BEST BIBLE TEACHERS in the LAND. You can take your BIAS remarks, and FLY the COOP. WE WILL
LISTEN TO HIM. And I am not a Calvinist, I only believe they have 3 of the 5 points are right, so neither Calvinist, nor Armenians
want to CLAIM ME. We Evangelicals thought that we Buried that Armenian vs. Calvinist ARGUMENT back in the 80's. What am I then,
JUST A CHRISTIAN. I like it that way. You are trying to stir up an ARGUMENT, and that is SIN. We have our heated debates, but YOU COME IN HERE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT. BIG DIFFERENCE, SO, BYE, BYE.


Proverbs 6:14-19 (NCV)
14 They make evil plans in their hearts and are always starting arguments.
15 So trouble will strike them in an instant; suddenly they will be so hurt no one can help them.
16 There are six things the LORD hates. There are seven things he cannot stand:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that kill innocent people,
18 a mind that thinks up evil plans, feet that are quick to do evil,
19 a witness who lies, and someone who starts arguments among families.


We are all brothers and sisters her, take you ARGUMENTS elsewhere, PREFERABLY OFF THIS SITE.
YOU ARE SINNING when you want to start a FIGHT, and it is not welcome here.
TOPIX has a supposed Christian Forum, where all kinds of Bickering, Name Calling, and down right Fighting goes on continually.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The easy-believism OSAS people are actually closet gnostics, without even knowing it.

The way I have seen them twist 1 Cor. 6:9-11 is that since they are now believers, they were washed, but obviously they didn't stop doing those things. That would be works salvation right? So they are made POSITIONALLY righteous, while in fact they remain UNRIGHTEOUS.

Let me assure you, God is not playing games.

You mix two teachings together and you got yourself last days apostasy:
1. You can't repent
2. You are eternally secure in your sins.

The facts are they are quick to backtrack when you point out the obvious conclusions of their beliefs. Things such as:
"God disciplines and chastises people. We are not teaching you can just live in sin and be saved"
"A true believer will eventually make a break through"

These usually come out only when they are on the backfoot. Before this, they were saying what Charles said in the video I posted, that yes, you can live in all kinds of sin, and you can never out sin God's grace. What do you think the viewer at home is going to think? I let you decide.

My question again is: WHEN. WHEN does the sin stop? And Neither Macabeus, myself, or any other person is claiming to be sinlessly perfect. But again, there are willful sins, and unwillful sins, as I have demonstrated on about page 4000 if I recall correctly on this thread. Obviously the clear verses from Numbers were rejected by the OSAS advocates in favor of their "Its all sin, you've broken one law thats it. You've stolen now you might as well commit adultery as well".

Its true that if you have sinned once, you are a lawbreaker, and no amount of returning to obedience will change that fact. This does not mean: All sin is equal, and everyone who has studied the Tanakh knows this, the punishments for sins were different. Which is why even in the New Testament John talks about sins UNTO DEATH, that you should not pray for, these would be open, willful, rebellion against God.

Jesus says to look upon a woman to lust after her is adultery in your heart. This is true. But let me ask you, which is worse, lusting after someone or actually commiting adultery? Anyone with half a brain knows, commiting adultery is way worse, because you are a homewrecker, destroying someone's life, whereas with lusting you are only destroying yourself.

So what sins must stop? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21. The Apostle Paul writing under the inspiration of God's Spirit says it loud and clear, be not deceived, people who are practicing these things WILL NOT inherit the kingdom. Surprisingly, the things that Paul says "be not deceived" are the ones that the devil is actively deceiving people on. This in itself is proof of the Bible being divinely inspired.

Don't let anyone fool you into thinking you will be saved and not inherit the kingdom, the kingdom is where the KING is. If you are not with the KING, you are in the lake of FIRE.

Another legalist who thinks his stuff does not stink and he is better than everyone else

Take my advice friend, stop watering down the oaw and excusing your sin, repent, and come to christ, he will still recieve you into his family and gve you eternal life, trsy, right her where you stand, just ask.

 

[VCO]

Wrong .. you are the one with the false accusations.

https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4021209


And on your Corinthian verse challenge later.... I have work to do and I blame you for my negligence .... just kidding!!!

But I will look at it ...maybe... we will see how the wind blows.

I can put up with your Non-Conservative Position, far better than the new guy that just came in and wanted to start the ARMENIAN vs. CALVINIST severe argument all over again. I guess needed HIS ARGUMENATIVE ATTITUDE to remind me how bad it can be: #107,131 . You see when I first discovered online Bible Discussion Groups, I landed on TOPIX supposed Christian Forum, which has NO supervision, and No Rules, and ANY THING GOES. It was quickly was taken over by ATHEISTS and just turned into a NASTY NAME CALLING MESS. So needless to say, I LEFT Them FAR BEHIND, a couple months in. I still think you are wrong, and wish you could see the light, and worry about you making the Rapture, but I can put up with your Opposite Point of view, far Better than TooFastTurtle .

 

[TooFastTurtle]

Dr. Charles Stanley is one of the BEST BIBLE TEACHERS in the LAND. You can take your BIAS remarks, and FLY the COOP. WE WILL
LISTEN TO HIM. And I am not a Calvinist, I only believe they have 3 of the 5 points are right, so neither Calvinist, nor Armenians
want to CLAIM ME. We Evangelicals thought that we Buried that Armenian vs. Calvinist ARGUMENT back in the 80's. What am I then,
JUST A CHRISTIAN. I like it that way. You are trying to stir up an ARGUMENT, and that is SIN. We have our heated debates, but YOU COME IN HERE LOOKING FOR A FIGHT. BIG DIFFERENCE, SO, BYE, BYE.


Proverbs 6:14-19 (NCV)
14 They make evil plans in their hearts and are always starting arguments.
15 So trouble will strike them in an instant; suddenly they will be so hurt no one can help them.
16 There are six things the LORD hates. There are seven things he cannot stand:
17 a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that kill innocent people,
18 a mind that thinks up evil plans, feet that are quick to do evil,
19 a witness who lies, and someone who starts arguments among families.


We are all brothers and sisters her, take you ARGUMENTS elsewhere, PREFERABLY OFF THIS SITE.
YOU ARE SINNING when you want to start a FIGHT, and it is not welcome here.
TOPIX has a supposed Christian Forum, where all kinds of Bickering, Name Calling, and down right Fighting goes on continually.

Did you listen to what he had to say? If you think he is one of the best Bible teachers after hearing that....... then that speaks volumes in and of itself.

As for starting arguments, this entire thread is nothing but an argument, a debate. Funny how you only say that to me.

No call outs for anyone else.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you listen to what he had to say? If you think he is one of the best Bible teachers after hearing that....... then that speaks volumes in and of itself.

As for starting arguments, this entire thread is nothing but an argument, a debate. Funny how you only say that to me.

I guess @Macabeus was right. This thread looks to be a cult of DC where he is protected by the OSAS-squad. Everyone else gets called out but him, for flinging the mud, that is.

This thread is a thread apposed to the belief works are required to maintain salvation. It is not a DC is king thread

DC has been chastened multiple times when he gets out of line, as have many of us when we get out of line, mostly in private (take a brother aside as the scripture says) bit at times public if it gets real bad. the difference is, we take brotherly correction with humility, not as an attack,

If you think your works based, unchristcentered legalistic modern day pharisee ciew of salvation is going to stand unapposed in this thread or any other thread, your mistaken.

 

[VCO]

What false accusations. The main thing I see in your link that is relevant is that DC left the word Lord out of his quote of Romans 10:9-10. I don’t know if it was inadvertent, but it sure was convenient for you and he.

You REALLY NEED TO DELETE that EG quote at the Bottom of your Message, it is Getting Annoying in a BAD WAY. It Discourages us from even READING YOUR POSTS.

Use a SMALL Picture instead to Convey your message, LIKE:

​

 

[VCO]

Another legalist who thinks his stuff does not stink and he is better than everyone else

Take my advice friend, stop watering down the oaw and excusing your sin, repent, and come to christ, he will still recieve you into his family and gve you eternal life, trsy, right her where you stand, just ask.

You know that guy that came in here to FIGHT, thinks GOD will reward him for it. So I am glad I used the quote from Proverbs 6:14-19 (NCV). I am not found of NCV, but I figured he needed the simplest warning about ARGUING that I COULD FIND. It is the first time that I recommended TOPIX to anybody, but He would fit right in with those false prophets.

 

[Macabeus]

This thread is a thread apposed to the belief works are required to maintain salvation. It is not a DC is king thread

DC has been chastened multiple times when he gets out of line, as have many of us when we get out of line, mostly in private (take a brother aside as the scripture says) bit at times public if it gets real bad. the difference is, we take brotherly correction with humility, not as an attack,

If you think your works based, unchristcentered legalistic modern day pharisee ciew of salvation is going to stand unapposed in this thread or any other thread, your mistaken.

The biblical doctrine of regeneration is not legalistic. That is what I am discussing, I’m not sure about turtle, and I have no idea where you are. When you reply to me, you’re not even replying to what I say, just burning strawmen

 

[VCO]

Did you listen to what he had to say? If you think he is one of the best Bible teachers after hearing that....... then that speaks volumes in and of itself.

As for starting arguments, this entire thread is nothing but an argument, a debate. Funny how you only say that to me.

No call outs for anyone else.

We have a TOOL HERE, that we can Permanently IGNORE some one. You are on the FASTEST TRACK TO BEING IGNORED.
That means You will be Put on our IGNORE list, then None of us who put on our IGNORE LIST, will not SEE any of your POSTS ever.
If you do not learn to PLAY NICE:

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


I consider my last post to you - YOUR FIRST WARNING.
I consider this post to you - YOUR SECOND WARNING.

Next TIME you will go on the IGNORE LIST, and then you can TALK TO YOURSELF.

 

[Macabeus]

You REALLY NEED TO DELETE that EG quote at the Bottom of your Message, it is Getting Annoying in a BAD WAY. It Discourages us from even READING YOUR POSTS.

Use a SMALL Picture instead to Convey your message, LIKE:

View attachment 203964​

I will fix it out of respect for you