Galatian Conundrums
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look, I have studied the law in the OT and what are you saying now about the 'early church fathers'?
LOL...I'm sorry, but I am not exactly slow, but I honestly do not quite get what you are saying with regard to 2 gospels being taught
Paul gave Peter what for regarding keeping the law for salvation
instead of throwing out this and that, would you kindly spell out how you see 2 gospels? (that is Jew and non Jew)
if you don't mind that is because I don't find things are adding up here ... shrugs
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oh cheese whiz
the entire law was always a burden
no one has ever kept the law or there would have been no need for any sacrifice
God know no one could keep the law and so a huge system of sacrifice was initiated at God's insistence
no one can keep the law now and the provision for it is not even available
there are Gentiles trying to keep the law and Jews who are happy to throw it off
the gospel has no part with the law and vice versa
I dunno what you are getting at by I said that already ... shrugs again
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oh cheese whiz
the entire law was always a burden
no one has ever kept the law or there would have been no need for any sacrifice
God know no one could keep the law and so a huge system of sacrifice was initiated at God's insistence
no one can keep the law now and the provision for it is not even available
there are Gentiles trying to keep the law and Jews who are happy to throw it off
the gospel has no part with the law and vice versa
I dunno what you are getting at by I said that already ... shrugs again
the entire law was always a burden
no one has ever kept the law or there would have been no need for any sacrifice
God know no one could keep the law and so a huge system of sacrifice was initiated at God's insistence
no one can keep the law now and the provision for it is not even available
there are Gentiles trying to keep the law and Jews who are happy to throw it off
the gospel has no part with the law and vice versa
I dunno what you are getting at by I said that already ... shrugs again
165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
166 Lord, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments.
167 My soul hath kept thy testimonies; and I love them exceedingly.
168 I have kept thy precepts and thy testimonies: for all my ways are before thee.
169 Let my cry come near before thee, O Lord: give me understanding according to thy word.
170 Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word.
171 My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes.
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O Lord; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.
Paul`s epistles contain a lot of quotes and lessons right from the Law.
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This states in effect that on gospel teaches the law is required,
If the law condems anyone who does not meet its standard, how can that be good news (gospel). That can only be bad news for one group. Who have no means of salvation.
Before you get mad, you said on group must follow the law as per the gospel given to them. So what i said is true,
If the law condems anyone who does not meet its standard, how can that be good news (gospel). That can only be bad news for one group. Who have no means of salvation.
Before you get mad, you said on group must follow the law as per the gospel given to them. So what i said is true,
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It is sad when people water down the law to their own standard and refuse to take the law as written and required.
Moses demanded the law must be perfectly kept. Whoever fails is cursed
Paul repeated this statement
James said whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles in one point is guilty
Thus means i can live 100 years and never break the law. Then the day before i die, break one dommand, and i am doomed forever, because i failed to keep the standard and am guilty. My 100 years are rendered useless, because i stumbled in one point and am guilty,
Moses demanded the law must be perfectly kept. Whoever fails is cursed
Paul repeated this statement
James said whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles in one point is guilty
Thus means i can live 100 years and never break the law. Then the day before i die, break one dommand, and i am doomed forever, because i failed to keep the standard and am guilty. My 100 years are rendered useless, because i stumbled in one point and am guilty,
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I guess that explains why you cannot flesh out whatever it is you are trying to 'teach' us
I mean, no offense, but I don't think you actually understand whatever it is you are trying to pass on from wherever it is you picked it up
in regard to the bold type above, that is nonsense. that does not exist. people may say they are following the gospel but they are not following the gospel if the follow the law as well
as for this:
this is non-factual. period. I attended a Messianic congregation for a few years and no one kept the law
I have known other Messianic believers and they did not keep the law
seriously, please stop posting so called facts. if you are going to post facts, or what you think are facts, you NEED to source your material otherwise it sounds like you are making things up...
now as far as your response to me in post 45....you cannot possibly be trying to state that if someone in the NT has quoted OT scripture that means they are following law? do you actually know why the book of Galatians was written?
there was no New Testament. again, do you know the actual reason Paul wrote to the Galatians?
hint: start reading at v. 6 chapter 1
you are stating things as though they were facts and they are NOT facts...such as what you state about Messianic Jews. if 23,000 Messianics try to follow the law, it would be still be inaccurate to state they all follow the law and the gospel
SMH
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Your assertions about Messianic congregations are incorrect. I think you are mistaken abour which kind of congregation you were in.
Maybe you accept this as valid info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism
Maybe you accept this as valid info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism
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6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
see? Paul says JUST ONE GOSPEL AND WONDERS WHAT HAS POSSESSED THE GALATIANS TO REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM IT
JUST ONE
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
again, Paul states the gospel is perverted ...the gospel of Christ is perverted when you add to it!
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
want to have your salvation revoked? want to be accursed? preach something different than THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL OF CHRIST
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
gee Paul must think this one gospel thing is pretty important cause he keeps repeating himself and uses the word accursed again...which means cut off from God...no more salvation...close the curtain...you are in darkness....you go to hell
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Paul says he is a servant of Christ and does not serve men
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Paul preaches Christ...ONE GOSPEL. the law is NOT the gospel and Paul ain't preaching it
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
open the Bible and read Galatians. it was written for the sole purpose of denying any other gospel save the gospel of Christ
I mean it's as plain as anyone could ever have made it
see? Paul says JUST ONE GOSPEL AND WONDERS WHAT HAS POSSESSED THE GALATIANS TO REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM IT
JUST ONE
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
again, Paul states the gospel is perverted ...the gospel of Christ is perverted when you add to it!
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
want to have your salvation revoked? want to be accursed? preach something different than THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL OF CHRIST
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
gee Paul must think this one gospel thing is pretty important cause he keeps repeating himself and uses the word accursed again...which means cut off from God...no more salvation...close the curtain...you are in darkness....you go to hell
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Paul says he is a servant of Christ and does not serve men
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Paul preaches Christ...ONE GOSPEL. the law is NOT the gospel and Paul ain't preaching it
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
open the Bible and read Galatians. it was written for the sole purpose of denying any other gospel save the gospel of Christ
I mean it's as plain as anyone could ever have made it
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ok
I understand you better now
thanks for clairifying that you are one of those folks who have a cement mentality
all mixed up and set
no cure for that
you have also developed some cracks in your cement
sigh
where do they come from?
well folks...enjoy. you have your work cut out for you. I'm done with this nonsense
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Consider Acts 10 which took place about 10 years after Jesus ascended. If you wanted to follow Jesus up to that time you had to be Jewish or be on your way to becoming a Jew as a proselyte. You were keeping the Law. Notice Peters objections verse 14 and verse 28.
Peter is keeping the Law years after the ascension of Christ.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Peter is keeping the Law years after the ascension of Christ.
9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.
21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.
23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.
24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.
25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.
26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?
30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,
31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.
32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.
33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
