Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[fredoheaven]

Any gift your parents gave you, you accepted (in your heart, maybe, rejected as you didn't like it) and then you misplaced it/lost it and, maybe, found it again or you threw it away coz you didn't want it .. Salvation is a gift for ALL bought and paid for by Jesus Christ giving His life on the cross. We can accept it or reject it. If we accept it, we can, later, lose it by unrepentant sinning or we can choose to throw it away by choosing to sin and not repent. This is not rocket science and no oxymoron.

It seems to me you're not sure if you really meant your acceptance of the gift.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I really believe the parable of the prodigal son clearly parallels we children of our Heavenly Father. When we go our own way, not by God's Will, we are prodigal children. God will allow us to go our own way and will keep on loving us and wanting us to come back to Him, but He won't force us. He will let aka ALLOW us to do our own thing but IF we later choose to come back to Him, He will welcome us with open loving arms and celebrate our return because we "were lost but now found" and "dead but now alive". By going our own way and choosing to sin, we chose to become lost and dead and God allowed such to happen but did not want that nor make it happen. IF we later repented aka returned to God, we were now found, not lost, and alive, not dead. God gives all but we must receive His all and not all receive it coz they choose not to. I am not talking about working aka earning Heaven as obeying is not work but, rather, simply choosing to do God's Will (and I do try but don't always manage, so I repent, and get back on track) and as with the person in the well, that person is saved by the one who pulls him/her out of the well but that person cannot save him/her if he/she does not take hold of the rope. God saves us but only if we take hold of the rope He throws to us and that rope is submitting to Him and His Word, His Truth, His Will. If we submit to such, He can and will save us. If we do not submit to such, He can't save us and such is not His failure, but our failure. The road to heaven and the gate are narrow and only a "few" find them. We know where the road and gate are but we must choose to stay on the road and enter through the gate. God will guide us through such IF we stay with Him but IF we choose to travel the broad road, God will ALLOW us to and we shall be choosing to end up in the lake of fire. God can and will save us IF we let Him and not all let Him. He WILL never force anyone to be saved. Again, it would be like doctor and patient. A doctor can cure some conditions we experience but only IF we follow his/her advice. We will not be healed IF we choose to ignore what the doctor advises. So, God can and will save us IF we do as He says - believe, love, obey, repent when disobedient.

The youngest son who went astray was still his father's son the whole time he was astray. After we are born again with our spiritual birth, we never become unborn just because we sin. We are still God's children, just a disobedient one. We still have our promised inheritance of eternal life.

 

[fredoheaven]

It seems to me you're not sure if you really meant your acceptance of the gift.

Margo, It is also important for you to know that your heart must be right in accepting the gift of salvation. In this case, if your heart is not right you simply reject it. That's why scripture is clear

Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Margo74]

Obeying, doing, submitting or working out salvation is indeed scripturally base. It must be kept by the true believers, saved, redeemed as part of his growth. Obedience is not necessarily to be the agency that we are saved, keep to be saved, we are saved forever by grace through faith in what Christ did, not needing some extra effort from yours It must be God's way, not your way. It must be his works, not our works. It is the will of God for someone who doesn't believe Christ only saves to repent or perish!

Titus 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Yes, God saves and we cannot save ourselves but must rely on Him to save us BUT some reject His offer to save them so unless and until they accept His offer to save them, they will not be saved. As for those who accept His offer to save them, they MUST believe, love, obey, and repent when they fail to obey. Yes, God could force all to be saved whether they wish to be saved or not and whether they wish to submit to doing His Will and repenting when they fail to do so or not BUT what would be the point? It would be a pointless transaction.

 

[Margo74]

The youngest son who went astray was still his father's son the whole time he was astray. After we are born again with our spiritual birth, we never become unborn just because we sin. We are still God's children, just a disobedient one. We still have our promised inheritance of eternal life.

Yes, we never stop being God's children and He never stops loving us BUT He allows us to use our free will to choose to come to Him and stay with Him or to come to Him and later leave Him but return in time as did the prodigal son or to come to Him and later leave Him and never return to Him. The latter are still His children and He still loves them but He hates their sinfulness and in His JUSTICE, He will allow them to suffer the consequences of the actions they chose to take and remain taking. Heaven will be only for the righteous, not the unrighteous and for the victorious not unvictorious and for the good not the evil and for those who endured as needed not those who gave up and despaired. BUT when we go astray we can always return and be restored IF we genuinely repent. The only sin we can commit that can never ever be forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All other sins can and will be forgiven, forgotten, and not punished IF only we repent of them.

 

[cv5]

Yes, we MUST obey Him but some sinfulness takes many tries to overcome so we keep trying and trying and I believe repenting each time we fail at it does help strengthen us in being more effective - has worked for me. But, yes, we MUST obey Him and His commandments which are not "suggestions".

Gods children get infinite forgiveness. Just what you would give your child.

 

[Margo74]

Gods children get infinite forgiveness. Just what you would give your child.

Forgiveness is NOT automatic but given in fullness with no punishment as Christ paid the punishment but we cannot just sin and not ask forgiveness and repent aka turn back to God and we must become like little children as in be childlike, not childish.

 

[Lightskin]

I do not know how mailmandan will respond but my response would be that only God can and does save BUT only IF we co-operate and submit to His Will aka Way to be saved.

One word; faith.

 

[Lightskin]

All gifts by man and by God can be accepted or rejected and if accepted can be misplaced/lost but later found and kept or thrown away and never taken back. IF we accept God's gift of Salvation, THEN we can keep it by obeying His Will and repenting when we fail to do so or we can misplace/lose it by sinning but can find it again by repenting or leave it lost by never repenting. A gift is a gift is a gift whether by man or by God and the only difference is that God's gift of Salvation is the greatest gift of all and anyone in their right spiritual mind and heart set would accept it and forever keep it by avoiding sin and repenting when one does sin. As I have said countless times, God offers the gift of Salvation but will NEVER force it on anyone nor force anyone to keep it if they do accept it. That must be our own free will choice. God wants that we accept and keep His most precious gift but He knows some won't and He won't force anyone to do so as to force us to go to Him and stay with Him makes us prisoners and slaves by taking away our free will choices and Heaven would become a prison, not a paradise.

Please respond to post #3020 with the following: Book, Chapter, Verse.

 

[mailmandan]

We do not try to obey Him, we MUST obey Him.

John 13:34A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you mustlove one another.

Must or else? How much obedience does it take? More works salvation. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10)

 

[Margo74]

One word; faith.

faith, love, obedience, repentance when disobedient

 

[Noose]

Must or else? How much obedience does it take? More works salvation. Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10)

It is written right there, MUST.
Or else you won't abide in Christ.

 

[Noose]

Of course, Adam is a good example of how his works could not save him.
Abraham is a good example that even without works yet believes in God has counted him for righteousness.

Romans 4:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

James 2:20O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?f 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. 23And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”g and he was called a friend of God. 24As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

 

[Noose]

I think you need to understand some Bible words relative to salvation, this is perhaps you are confused. Of course, not all men were justified and not all are given life at Christ's death on the cross. It is true that Christ is the propitiation of the sins of the Apostles and to the whole world yet only those who respond by faith are to benefit it.

The fact, that the blood offering of Christ is for the sins of the whole world and that the complete benefits of Christ sacrifice are available only to those who by faith accept the provision for sin.

Romans 3:24-26 says:

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Based on the highlighted above, how is a two year old saved?

When answering, remember Jesus said if we don't change and become like the little children, we shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Explain.

And, should this part of the bible be removed?

Rom 5:18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men.

 

[Noose]

Yes, we MUST obey Him but some sinfulness takes many tries to overcome so we keep trying and trying and I believe repenting each time we fail at it does help strengthen us in being more effective - has worked for me. But, yes, we MUST obey Him and His commandments which are not "suggestions".

Sins of the flesh will be punished either way for the flesh must die. It is your understanding that lives on.
Ponder that.

 

[Margo74]

It is written right there, MUST.
Or else you won't abide in Christ.

so, mailmandan, are you saying it doesn't matter how much one sins and does not repent or how serious one's sinning is or that one's sinning is done knowingly, willingly, deliberately .. that one is still saved?

I asked 3 OSAS believers and I know many, if not most, other OSAS believers would say the same: Iasked:

if you murder someone and are not caught and don't turn yourself in and an innocent person is executed for your crime and still you don't turn yourself in and then you die without repenting, will you still go to heaven?

Without any thought at all, all three, asked at different times at different servers, said an unqualified, "Yes"

my reaction: unbelievable

 

[Margo74]

Based on the highlighted above, how is a two year old saved?

When answering, remember Jesus said if we don't change and become like the little children, we shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Explain.

And, should this part of the bible be removed?

Rom 5:18So then, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men.

faith, love, obedience, repentance when disobedient or no salvation

 

[Margo74]

faith, love, obedience, repentance when disobedient or no salvation

as to what you said Noose, I think you meant not inherit

 

[Noose]

Where is the must in your Bible that you read in the verse you quoted?

It's not in the various bibles I have.

I'm not saying we should not but you have used the word MUST and it ain't in that passage.

John 13:34-35
34 So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other.35 Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples.”

You have added MUST

It is a must anyway. God is love, how can anyone claim to be saved if they don't have God (Love) in them?

1 John 3:15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer. 16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

This is why it is a must.

 

[Noose]

A 3 year old or baby will not know how to obey him.

A 3 year old baby does not hate, so they love.

It is said, the one who loves has known God, not the one who knows God has loved.