John 6:38 tells me that eternal salvation is not a choice that man makes. Eternal salvation is given to all of those that Christ died for on the cross. He only died for those that his Father gave him (in a covenant relationship between the Father and The Son, Eph 1) and said that none of them would be lost because he would raise all of them up at the last day. That was over 2000 years ago and none of us were even born naturally into this world. That would make it impossible for us to have a choice.
Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Satan believes and was already in Heaven but he still believes but is not in Heaven and never will be again .. why? .. he arrogantly disobeyed God's Will and refused to submit to God and His Will and he still does refuse .. so, if that happened to him, can such not happen to us who believe and then maybe stop believing or who believe but do not obey and do not repent genuinely when we disobey .. if you sin, you must repent .. if you sin and do not repent, you will not have eternal life ..
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We are constantly warned in God's Holy Spirit inspired Word and Truth to "endure to the end" and that is for the saved, not for the unsaved. The unsaved and unbelievers are not told to endure as they have nothing in which to endure. The saved are to endure in their faith and in their doing God's Will and in repenting when they do not do God's Will. Do you sin? If so, what do you do about such?
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You said “no one” but I’ve seen posters who have thought their obedience would make a deal to be saved. That’s the reality why there’s a discussion in here.
Obedience and disobedience are choices as we can see it being demonstrated by Adam. If you claim that God causes people to obey then you'll be implicating God for causing sin and death to come to the world because you'd mean that He did not cause Adam to obey. Why is this simple thing messing you up?
Yea we have been given a free will, choices to make and relative to salvation, we have either to believe or not believe the Gospel can save. That Jesus only saves, that by the grace of God by faith we are saved. It’s one’s choice to receive or reject it. Are we going to reject to trust Christ completely for our eternal salvation? If someone injects works-based salvation, that what Christ did is incomplete not trusting or believing him is their choice to end up to eternal damnation.
Your illustration doe s not fit what I am trying to convey. In the New Testament scripture, Adam is not the best example of illustrating salvation. He is at best for illustrating the fall of man. Paul gave us Abraham as the best example. For Abraham believed God and is accounted unto him the righteousness of God.
Your illustration of relative to salvation or the biblical illustration relative to salvation. My choice, the biblical illustration.
What have I been messing up? Or it is you that’s messing up. Let see the scripture.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The scriptures are clear we need to work out not work for meaning we have to obey God because we are already saved. Of course, the will of God is for real believers to obey him. When the believers choose to obey God and to do of his good pleasure is actually the working of God in their lives. The ones controlling them is the Holy Spirit. They then are being filled with the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is already there but the infilling will be dependent whether we let God works in us. If we let God, then God works in the lives of believers. It’s a matter of choice to live a life as shining lights or be a dim light. So it’s our choice to let God work in you or let him not.
Obedience and disobedience are choices as we can see it being demonstrated by Adam. If you claim that God causes people to obey then you'll be implicating God for causing sin and death to come to the world because you'd mean that He did not cause Adam to obey. Why is this simple thing messing you up?
Yea we have been given a free will, choices to make and relative to salvation, we have either to believe or not believe the Gospel can save. That Jesus only saves, that by the grace of God by faith we are saved. It’s one’s choice to receive or reject it. Are we going to reject to trust Christ completely for our eternal salvation? If someone injects works-based salvation, that what Christ did is incomplete not trusting or believing him is their choice to end up to eternal damnation.
Your illustration doe s not fit what I am trying to convey. In the New Testament scripture, Adam is not the best example of illustrating salvation. He is at best for illustrating the fall of man. Paul gave us Abraham as the best example. For Abraham believed God and is accounted unto him the righteousness of God.
Your illustration of relative to salvation or the biblical illustration relative to salvation. My choice, the biblical illustration.
What have I been messing up? Or it is you that’s messing up. Let see the scripture.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The scriptures are clear we need to work out not work for meaning we have to obey God because we are already saved. Of course, the will of God is for real believers to obey him. When the believers choose to obey God and to do of his good pleasure is actually the working of God in their lives. The ones controlling them is the Holy Spirit. They then are being filled with the Holy Spirit. The indwelling is already there but the infilling will be dependent whether we let God works in us. If we let God, then God works in the lives of believers. It’s a matter of choice to live a life as shining lights or be a dim light. So it’s our choice to let God work in you or let him not.
Aaaahm, the verse clearly talks of the future. What was done in the past is for everyone (the whole world), what is reserved for future is for those that will be victorious.
Something can not be reserved for you and you when you have it - you can not have your cake and eat it too.
Something can not be reserved for you and you when you have it - you can not have your cake and eat it too.
I like that answer but do not fully agree. God CAN and WILL work in and through us ONLY "IF" we allow Him to do so by our submitting to His Will being done, not our own when our will is not in accordance with His. Obeying Christ's two great commandments is showing our love for Him as He Himself said, "IF you love Me, [THEN] keep My commandments". So, we must believe in Christ and we must love Him and IF we love Him, THEN we must keep His commandments. Obeying those two great commandments and doing God's Will, not our own, IS NOT WORK. We are not earning salvation as it is a free gift offered to ALL but not accepted by ALL and not kept by ALL who accepted it. We are to be in a relationship - a loving relationship - with God and all relationships take two to make them work. God will always do His part but we must do our part, too, or the relationship will fail. God loves sinners but He abhors evil aka sin and when we sin and we all do, we are turning away from God as He hates sin. Then we have the choice to turn back aka repent or not. God will never force us to come to Him or to stay with Him as what would be the point for Him and for us IF He did so. Imagine a heaven of eternal life filled with people who did not wish to be there but were forced to be there and imagine how God would feel in knowing the people there were only there coz He forced them to be there. God wants that none should perish but He knows many will perish and it is up to each of us to be saved or to perish. To be saved, we must accept and keep the free gift of salvation offered us and to do so, we must believe in Christ as the only way to get this gift and we must THEN love Him, obey Him, and repent when we fail to obey and we do fail to obey. Obedience IS NOT works and not earning salvation. It is simply choosing to do God's Will, not our own, and to submit to Him, so He can live in us and we in Him and so He can work in and through us. Belief, Love, Obedience, Submission are all necessary to be and to remain saved. Repentance restores any loss due to our failing in any of those necessary things. Sooooooooooo, live for, with, and in God and repent when you slip in such or don't repent and instead perish. There is a lake of fire in which are Satan and his demons .. unbelievers .. AND once saved believers who chose to walk away from their salvation by sinning and not repenting. There will be no unrepentant sinners in Heaven. Such would be impossible and would defeat the whole purpose of the Kingdom of Heaven. See about who will not be in the New Jerusalem when Christ sets up His Kingdom on Earth for 1000 years and then for all eternity.
