Disorganised religion?

[Lanolin]

Many people claim they dont like organised religion.
But then what do they prefer...disorganised religion? Where nobody really knows what they are doing...? I think organisation can be a good thing. Things dont get done without some degree of organisation, right?

The entire book of Numbers is all about God organising Moses and the israelites so they could make that journey across the wilderness. If there wasnt any kind of organisation, they would never have gotten out of Egypt. Or into the Promised Land!

What do you think?

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Organized religion tends to refer to mainstream religions with clear, current leaders. Christians, Mormons, Catholics and religions like that are the notion.
Often time people who use such terms prefer 'spirituality' over religion. Most commonly these are people with leanings into New Age and Eastern Philosophy beliefs. Where there is no single code of conduct, no single authority (either as a specific god entity, nor leaders such as pastors). It's usually all about subjective morality and creating your own religion. Many of the 'nature religions' (Paganism, Native American religions, etc...) are also part of this group that is against 'organized religion'. I see it as people that literally want a religion than can build around themselves, rather than feeling that adapting to a previously devised code.

I have a friend who is into New Age, eastern and Native American beliefs. She has problems with authority, her outlook on things tends to be very erratic suiting her moods over a standard to live by and i always feel she is in constant contradiction to herself. It all tends to go hand in hand and organized religion goes against much of that. Especially in certain sects.

 

[Lanolin]

Interesting, well looking at Jesus, whats the difference between him and other leaders? He gave the disciples his authority one thing, and had trained them up. He was with them for three years and then with the holy spirit sent he promised he would never leave nor forsake them. That takes some organisation, notice he told his deiciples to wait for him at pentecost to receive power. And then they became witnesses and were to spread the gospel, and they were able to cast out demons and heal the sick.

Other types of leaders just keep power to themselves.

 

[GaryA]

It is not so much about "being organized" as it is about the side-effects that result from being too organized.

 

[Lanolin]

It is not so much about "being organized" as it is about the side-effects that result from being too organized.

How organised is TOO organised? Give some examples.

 

[Adstar]

Many people claim they dont like organised religion.
But then what do they prefer...disorganised religion? Where nobody really knows what they are doing...? I think organisation can be a good thing. Things dont get done without some degree of organisation, right?

The entire book of Numbers is all about God organising Moses and the israelites so they could make that journey across the wilderness. If there wasnt any kind of organisation, they would never have gotten out of Egypt. Or into the Promised Land!

What do you think?

I prefer Holy Spirit lead Body of Christ religon.... Which is inspired and united by the Holy Spirit..

Most "'orgiansed religon" on earth are human lead with compromised doctrines because of loyalty to the kings of this world and their worldly power and control objectives.. These religous harlots have made whores of themselves with the kings of this world and have abandoned their Loyalties to the Eternal KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS..

 

[Lanolin]

I prefer Holy Spirit lead Body of Christ religon.... Which is inspired and united by the Holy Spirit..

Most "'orgiansed religon" on earth are human lead with compromised doctrines because of loyalty to the kings of this world and their worldly power and control objectives.. These religous harlots have made whores of themselves with the kings of this world and have abandoned their Loyalties to the Eternal KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS..

The thing about the holy spirit is..how whole and compete he is...with men, they often overlook things and you always feel something is missing. But when the holy spirit takes over, you find everything is fuliflled as it should be and in its right place...nothing is wanting. There is vision and clarity and purity.

With man, often the thing lacking is spirit, or energy and power. You may have all the amazing scaffolding but its lifeless, theres no living breathing energy to anything. All form and no substance.

 

[Gregoryp]

Having tried most religions, all fall short in one way or another, only one had someone who stood up and prophesied correctly. Then the pastor spent most of the sermon mocking his assistant over his failed hardware business, jokes at his expense, not very edifying. I could have stayed in that one but unfortunately had to change cities. To get backside on seats, the churches today change there agenda to suit the world, hence gay marriage, not mentioning hell and the consequences of sin etc. You can build a relationship with Jesus directly without mankind agenda getting in the way. I guess once the Holy Spirit is with you, then you can discern where to go each Sunday. The Holy spirit doesn't hang out in lost churches .

 

[p_rehbein]

Organization is at the very core of Creation. Contrary to the worlds view, all that is was not born from chaos. There was a Master Plan from the beginning, and there was a Creator who instituted His Master Plan!

Gospel of John, Chapter 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The first Chapter of Genesis details Gods Master Plan, and how He implemented it. Chaos is not to be found in any of Gods Plan.

Psalm 8:3) When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

Jesus did all things in an orderly manner. Jesus did not dabble in chaos. He laid out the Fathers Master Plan for Salvation in an orderly manner. He conducted His Ministry in an orderly manner. He laid out Commandments to guide all believers so that they could live in an orderly manner pleasing to the Father. He followed the Fathers Master Plan completely! Even in His darkest hour, He stated:

Luke 22:42) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Consider the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Each is given to believers so that ALL can work together in an organized manner to do the will of the Father in Heaven.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 12:
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Apostle Paul taught organization within the Congregations he established. Various Verses in different Epistles speak of this, as they lay out the requirements for those who would desire to hold Office within the Congregations. He also stated:

1 Corinthians, Chapter 14:40) Let all things be done decently and in order.

Organization is not the downfall of Christianity, nor is it the damnation of Congregations. Denominational Ideology may well be, but organization/doing things in a decent and orderly manner is BIBLICAL TRUTH.

(my thoughts)

 

[Adstar]

The thing about the holy spirit is..how whole and compete he is...with men, they often overlook things and you always feel something is missing. But when the holy spirit takes over, you find everything is fuliflled as it should be and in its right place...nothing is wanting. There is vision and clarity and purity.

With man, often the thing lacking is spirit, or energy and power. You may have all the amazing scaffolding but its lifeless, theres no living breathing energy to anything. All form and no substance.

Of course men are lacking,, Why?.. Because we are still just flesh men..

But men still have sparks of life when the Holy Spirit kicks in and causes them to arc up..

 

[Lanolin]

I can imagine Paul trying to make himself heard in a congrgation where women were chatting away. He might have been reading some scriptures but they just ignored him.

Order, order!

Its like some children in my library. Sometimes If they are really noisy I need to ring the bell, clap my hands or do a chant. a say quiet please, and they are meant to say 'we're reading'.
Giving clear instructions step by step is important. If there is no structure, people dont know what to do, it descends into chaos.

I also added another thing...if they keep being rude and talking, or interrupting, especially when Im reading a story to them, calling out and not putting their hands up or waiting to the end, I will tell them 1) you need to sit by the rubbish bin or b) you need to go outside and I want you to pick up rubbish.

 

[Lanolin]

Moses and exodus. I was thinking on this and I actually do appreciate churches that organise outings and trips and retreats for members to have the opportunity to go away or go camping. Or go on missions.

If a church doesnt do this they to me would be kinda slack, unorganised and not really worth attending since they cant get their act together. Think of what it took for Paul to go on his missionary journeys and plant more churches.

 

[GaryA]

How organised is TOO organised? Give some examples.

Some churches get so organized that they drift away from preaching and teaching the Word (as a proper priority) and become more focused on - and end up spending most of their energy and efforts on - entertaining people.

Some churches get so organized that they become ritualistic and forget the simple elegance of the Bible with regard to things like:

~ Matthew 5:37
~ Matthew 22:37-39

They fall into the fear-and-judgment trap - and, without even realizing it - they effectively "take the headship of the Church away from Jesus and hand it to men" - replacing the Holy Spirit with Wisdom of Men.

Doing things "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40) is biblical, proper, and correct.

However, when the wisdom-of-men takes hold and renders a church ineffective in accomplishing much more than everyone being content with the "obligatory 3-4 hours a week" Christian life...