Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Trusting in Jesus for complete salvation is resting on His life and His righteousness, not on anything of our own.
The way we are led by Holy Spirit is to hear Him speak to us. It’s not a command/obedience relationship unless He is speaking something that would be a life saving word. He told me to slow my car down once and get away from the truck ahead of me. I did and a few moments later, hubcaps came flying off the truckbed in every direction.
It’s relationship Noose. A loving relationship.
The way we are led by Holy Spirit is to hear Him speak to us. It’s not a command/obedience relationship unless He is speaking something that would be a life saving word. He told me to slow my car down once and get away from the truck ahead of me. I did and a few moments later, hubcaps came flying off the truckbed in every direction.
It’s relationship Noose. A loving relationship.
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A command is a Law. Like in the 10 Commandments (Laws).
Jeremiah 31:33 New King James Version (NKJV)
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their [a]hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Hebrews 10:16 New King James Version (NKJV)
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
These passages, and others, are DESCRIPTIVE. They talk about the NEW heart the Lord gives us with His COMMAND (Law) to love.
I can go to my children and say "I command you to respect me!". But tell me how you can command somebody to love you?
My children love me. NOT because I command them, but because they recognize me as their father, and INTRINSICALLY love me. I can't FORCE them to love me.
That's why it's very important to understand that although all mankind are God's Creation, NOT all mankind are God's children. We become His Children when we are born again, given a NEW heart, as a NEW Creation, with His Law of love written on it. It is now INTRINSIC that we will love Him and other brothers and sisters in Him.
We DON'T PERFORM love. It is a natural byproduct of who we are now. Attempting to perform love as a means to stay saved negates the very act of love Jesus did for us in dying for us, and robs Him of His Glory.
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All those who have called upon Christ to save them. Those drawn as Jesus said in John 16:8-11
You works based salvation, tattered and worn, is showing. You have not discerned the difference between salvation by grace and sanctification through faith. Salvation is an event where the Holy Spirit enters the soul that has called out to Christ to save them. The Holy Spirit renews them unto eternal life. The Holy Spirit remains and never leaves that soul. The Holy Spirit begins His work of sanctification in the heart which continues until the day of redemption.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You works based salvation, tattered and worn, is showing. You have not discerned the difference between salvation by grace and sanctification through faith. Salvation is an event where the Holy Spirit enters the soul that has called out to Christ to save them. The Holy Spirit renews them unto eternal life. The Holy Spirit remains and never leaves that soul. The Holy Spirit begins His work of sanctification in the heart which continues until the day of redemption.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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did someone famous recently write a book about 'believers' and 'the born again' or 'those having faith' being completely different classes of people? or preach some radio sermon, the million-dollar book & study-guide series to be forthcoming?
because i keep seeing people say things like that lately, like, emphatically saying 'it's really important to know the difference!!' but AFAIK the Bible uses terms like this interchangeably.
because i keep seeing people say things like that lately, like, emphatically saying 'it's really important to know the difference!!' but AFAIK the Bible uses terms like this interchangeably.
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What is put in your heart is the knowledge of the requirement (Law). In some places it is said "God will give them a heart to know Him". You still have to obey the law because that's the essence of the law- to be obeyed.
Obedience to the law is never a byproduct of anything.
Psalm 119: 9How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Your word. 10With all my heart I have sought You; do not let me stray from Your commandments.
Heart means mind, new heart means new understanding.
God will give you a new understanding towards what He requires.
Whatever you do comes from what you understand- this is true for both believers and unbelievers.
So God causes you to understand His requirement but obedience is purely yours.
If God causes people to obey then Adam should not have sinned.
Obedience to the law is never a byproduct of anything.
Psalm 119: 9How can a young man keep his way pure? By guarding it according to Your word. 10With all my heart I have sought You; do not let me stray from Your commandments.
Heart means mind, new heart means new understanding.
God will give you a new understanding towards what He requires.
Whatever you do comes from what you understand- this is true for both believers and unbelievers.
So God causes you to understand His requirement but obedience is purely yours.
If God causes people to obey then Adam should not have sinned.
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So what happens when disciples stop listening and stop following the Holy Spirit and therefore Jesus??
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:
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Wrong as usual. Actually you are very good at getting it wrong.
The gospel of salvation is not about calling on the name of the Lord only ... whatever that is supposed to be
let's start at the beginning where the Christian church and discipleship began
Acts 2:38
given that so many Christians professing faith and salvation cannot do one simple beginners commandment
water baptism by full immersion for the forgiveness of their sins as it is here that a new believer calls on the name of the
Lord confessing their faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour ....
so the question remains "who exactly are saved?"
The gospel of salvation is not about calling on the name of the Lord only ... whatever that is supposed to be
let's start at the beginning where the Christian church and discipleship began
Acts 2:38
given that so many Christians professing faith and salvation cannot do one simple beginners commandment
water baptism by full immersion for the forgiveness of their sins as it is here that a new believer calls on the name of the
Lord confessing their faith in Jesus as Lord and Saviour ....
so the question remains "who exactly are saved?"
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Yes but:
...I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that (in the end) I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Cor 9:27
...I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that (in the end) I myself will not be disqualified.
1 Cor 9:27
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Again your ignorance of the truth concerning being born again by the baptism of the Holy Spirit is there for all to read.
You write about that which you do not know because you have not experienced Pentecost for yourself nor do you believe the
scriptures that teach you about truly receiving the Holy Spirit as set out by God.
Totally unscriptural. Not taught by Jesus or the Apostles.
You write about that which you do not know because you have not experienced Pentecost for yourself nor do you believe the
scriptures that teach you about truly receiving the Holy Spirit as set out by God.
Totally unscriptural. Not taught by Jesus or the Apostles.
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U
@InfidelImam I tend to think that people who are very insecure in their understanding of scriptures give an abundance of RED x's
Would you agree @dcontroversal?
Would you agree @dcontroversal?
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This may be the reason you, and others who think like you, are so caught up in works (you call it love) to either attain or maintain Salvation:
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 New International Version (NIV)
The Need for Self-Discipline
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
You think Eternal Life is a PRIZE to be won, instead of a GIFT of Grace given by faith in the atoning Sacrifice of Jesus.
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1 Cor 9 is not a motivation for doing anything, it is an advice for those that profess faith in Christ and as we can both see, it confirms that indeed people can be disqualified thereby trashing eternal security.
Love is a command that MUST be obeyed.
John 13: 34 A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.
It is not some kind of motivational talk, it is a must, if not, there are consequences just like Adam did not obey and there were consequences.
Love is a command that MUST be obeyed.
John 13: 34 A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so also you must love one another.
It is not some kind of motivational talk, it is a must, if not, there are consequences just like Adam did not obey and there were consequences.
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James 1:12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.
Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.
Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.
I can understand your reluctance to answer, but this point is too important to let you dance around.
Do YOU believe Eternal Life is a prize to be won?
If ever there were a simple yes or no answer, this would be it. Either it is a prize to be won, or it isn't a prize to be won. Which do YOU believe?
Do YOU believe Eternal Life is a prize to be won?
If ever there were a simple yes or no answer, this would be it. Either it is a prize to be won, or it isn't a prize to be won. Which do YOU believe?
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